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Author
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Topic: Another brickwall Distaster (Read 668 times)
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Ochsenkopff
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
I have one of those in the hard basket problems.
A Rebecca Riches born to a Daniel Riches and Elizabeth[Reed?] 1841 census ca. 26.
Possible marriage to a William Sizeland December 1846 reg. Wayland
Have checked the 1851 census covering all Norfolk disappeared, tried 1881 census not there either, went to free B.D.& M.
No death for Rebecca Sizeland except in a place named Chelsea in 1904 so off to the free 1901 census could not pick her up there for some reason and yet she was still alive.
A William Sizeland was found Free B.D.& M. dying in Wayland reg. March 1901 but apparently misses out on the census but I can't be sure this is the right William.
Checked shipping records to Australia found only one William Sizeland aged 46 arriving 1852 but no wife or children, he would have been 20 years older than she.
All I wanted in the first place was the birth place of Rebecca in the census but it has escalated in a brickwall.
Any takers on this one would appreciate help.
Could order certificate but a bit strapped at the moment.
Colin
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trish251
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Posts: 8241
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Hi Colin
I find a few Rebecca's in the 1841 census, but can't find one living with Daniel & Elizabeth - do you have a reference - or was she living elsewhere? I did find a Daniel and Elizabeth, but living alone - there were, however, a number of other folks called Riches on the same page(s).
Are you sure your Rebecca married William Sizeland given that there are at least 4 possibles in the 1841 census.
Trish
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ROAN1949
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 93
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Ochsenkopff,
Hate to change the subject and interrupt your request for Riches, but I noticed you said .'Checked the shipping records to Australia...' How did you do that? Are the records online?
Thanks,
Tony Roan
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Roan - Liverpool
Rowan, Dillon, Gittins, Lloyd, Boyle - Liverpool.
Beaumont, Traylor - Hereford
Cull, Davies - South Wales.
Shevlin - Newcastle.
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trish251
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 8241
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Hi Tony
There are shipping records to all of the Australian States online (not ALL shipping however, - there are many that haven't made it online).
If you go here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,165.0.html
And check the pinned threads at the top - Each state will have reference to it's own lists. In addition I had this thread for the eastern states - not sure how good the links are - I did it moons ago
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,26946.0.html
If you are looking for someone in particular, a query on the Oz board will probably bring you many replies
Trish
Sadly, despite the comment from Colin, there is not ONE shipping list 
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pigginnut
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 479
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Hi Colin
What exactly do you know for CERTAIN about Rebecca, did she definately marry?
There is a Rebecca Riches born abt 1825/26 Riddlesworth Norfolk - I can find her on all census unmarried and mostly in London just NOT 1841 yet - in 1891 this Rebecca is living with her sister Lydia also single about 4 years her junior and she is also with her in 1881 but I found interesting that a visitor in the family was a Mary Read born abt 1833 riddlesworth Norfolk
However further investigation into Lydia tells me she is daughter of Robert and Elizabeth Riches sigh
We need some definate facts for her like how you know she is daughter of Daniel and elizabeth and whether you know of any siblings.
Why do you say she was still alive in 1901
Can you tell us more
Teresa
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Valda
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Posts: 6896
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For Tony
criminals aren't included in shipping lists - those are for passengers who either paid their way or were given assisted passage. Criminals went at Her Majesty's pleasure and were transported by the government. Check The National Archives websire research guides for what records are avaiable for them.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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For Colin
not sure this is really the Rebecca and William you want.
1841 census HO107 781/10 folio 5 page 4
Hockham Norfolk
Benjamin Riches 60 Norfolk Ag lab
Elizah Riches 60 Norfolk
George Riches 25 Norfolk
Robert Riches 20 Norfolk
Henry Riches 15 Norfolk
Rebecca Riches 15 Norfolk
adult ages (those over 15 usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census)
HO107 781/10 folio 9 page 13
Hockham Norfolk
James Sizeland 47 Norfolk Ag lab
Lucy Sizeland 47 Norfolk
William Sizeland 17 Norfolk
Charles Sizeland 16 Norfolk
George Sizeland 9 Norfolk
Elizabeth Sizeland 7 Norfolk
James Sizeland 1 Norfolk
1851 census HO107 1823 folio 231
Hockham Norfolk
William Syzling 27 Hockham, Norfolk, Head Married Ag lab
Rebe Syzling 27 Hockham, Norfolk, Wife Married
Mary A Syzling 4 Hockham, Norfolk, Daughter
George Syzling 2 Hockham, Norfolk, Son
Susan Syzling 5mths Hockham, Norfolk, Daughter
1861 census RG9 1238 79
Kiddledock? Lane Hockham Norfolk
William Syzling 38 Hockham, Norfolk, Head married Ag lab
Rebekah Syzling 39 Hockham, Norfolk, Wife Married
Mary A Syzling 14 Hockham, Norfolk, Daughter
George Syzling 12 Hockham, Norfolk, Son
Susan Syzling 10 Hockham, Norfolk, Daughter
Ellen Syzling 8 Hockham, Norfolk, Daughter
Dick Syzling 6 Hockham, Norfolk, Son
Agnes Syzling 4mths Hockham, Norfolk, Daughter
William Riches 47 Hockham, Norfolk, Boarder Unmarried Chelsea pensioner
Deaths Dec 1865
Syzling Rebekah Wayland 4b 190
Missing 1871
Marriages Sep 1874
Bush Lydia Wayland 4b 417
Syzling William Wayland 4b 417
1881 census RG11 4344 folio 116
Cross Roads Bingley Yorkshire
Wm. Syzling 45 Hockham, Norfolk, Head Married Farm Labourer
Lydia Syzling 41 Caston, Norfolk, Wife Married
Agnes Lake 20 Hockham, Norfolk, Daughter Married Mill hand worsted
Joe Syzling 18 Hockham, Norfolk, Son General Labourer
Wm. Bush 16 Lynford, Norfolk, Son Linen Draper's Apprentice
James Bush 12 Lynford, Norfolk, Son
Edgar Bush 12 Lynford, Norfolk, Son
G.W. Lake 6mths Bingley, Yorkshire, Grandson
age for William should be nearer 58 on this census, but Agnes' age is spot on.
Marriages Mar 1880
Lake James Keighley 9a 235
Syzling Agnes Keighley 9a 235
Still in Keighley in 1891 - William now 64
1901 Keighley, William a dubious 69
Age on death near enough though
Deaths Sep 1910
Syzling William 86 Keighley 9a 126
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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Posts: 6896
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Boyds marriage index confirms a Daniel Riches married an Elizabeth Read in Heckingham (no coverage on the IGI or BVRI)
1813 RICHES DAN READ ELZ HECKINGHAM NORFOLK
A Mormon church member has submitted this entry to the IGI
DANIEL RICHES
ELIZABETH READ
Marriage: 02 DEC 1813 Heckingham, Norfolk
No Riches in Heckingham on the 1841 census or born there on the 1851 census.
Two potential (old enough) Daniel Riches still alive in Norfolk on the 1841 census (not proof enough that it is either of them, since obviously the Daniel who married Elizabeth Read could have died before 1841). One Daniel is alone in Norwich and the other is with an Elizabeth in Loddon (no coverage on the IGI or BVRI for Loddon). Plenty of Riches born Loddon on the 1851 census where Daniel and Elizabeth still live. Registration district Loddon not Wayland.
1851 census HO107 1820 folio 241
East side of The Street Loddon Norfolk
Daniel Riches 68 Thurston, Norfolk, Head Married Master Blacksmith employing 1 man
Elizabeth Riches 58 Brooke, Norfolk, Wife Married
There is a Rebecca Riches in Loddon on the 1841 census but not with Daniel and Elizabeth
1841 census HO107 779/14 folio ED13 page 4
Near Rampart House Loddon Norfolk
John Riches 50 Norfolk Farmer (born Postwick 1851 census)
Charlotte Riches 50 Norfolk (born Loddon 1851 census)
Rebecca Riches 15 Norfolk
This Rebecca born Postwick is probably visiting in Bunwell in 1851 the Howe family. Bunwell is in Depwade registration district and a Rebecca Riches marries in that district later in the year. Postwich is also not on the IGI or BVRI.
Regards
Valda
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Ochsenkopff
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Valda
My Daniel Riches is indeed the one living in Loddon, Daniel was Bp. to Arthur Riches and Sarah Horne 13th February 1783 at Tharston and was buried 4 July 1869 Loddon. Daniel married Elizabeth I presumed Surname Read 2 December 813 Heckingham she was born at Brooke. Elizabeth was 58 in the 1851 census and she was buried or died 5 January 1862 Loddon Holy Trinity Churchyard the same place as Daniel.
The 1841 census that my wife gave me has Daniel abt. 1786 living Loddon
Elizabeth abt. 1796 living Loddon and Rebecca abt. 1826 living Loddon and as there were other names on the listing I assumed the place must have been a boarding house of some nature.
This is how I had come to the conclusing that Rebecca was there daughter.
Have I made a big mistake?
Colin
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Ochsenkopff
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Everyone
I may have to apologise to you all as I have been inform that Rebecca Riches although on the 1841 census with Daniel Riches and Elizabeth may not have been their daughter.
Therefore replying at this stage to everyone who has contacted me could be wasting your time which I seem to have done already.
Colin
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Valda
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Daniel and Elizabeth were living alone on the 1841 census.
In the household before them was the entry I have already given you for John, Charlotte and Rebecca (as I stated the only Rebecca Riches in Loddon in 1841). The extra name in their household I didn't give you was John Newham aged 8. The comes the separate household of Daniel and Elizabeth.
Loddon was a village - not really big enough to warrant having a boarding house.
This Rebecca Riches would seem to have married in Depwade registration district in 1851.
Perhaps we can start again? Who are you looking for going from what is already known and proven and perhaps we can work back from that starting point and connect to the actual Rebecca Riches you are interested in?
Regards
Valda
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Ochsenkopff
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 147
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Valda
It all started with my 3 times Great Auntie Sarah Horne who married Arthur Riches in Tharston and their child Daniel ch:1786 Tharston married Elizabeth ? ch: at Brooke.
The only marriage of a Daniel which was not a common name I found was on the 2nd December 1813 to Elizabeth Read at a place called Heckingham which I still have not located but there was a town called Heckenham which was close to Lodden and I assumed it was a spelling mistake, both Daniel and Elizabeth died at Loddon.
My wife then got a copy of the 1841 census from Ancestry Com which had Rebecca Riches placed in the middle of Daniel and his wife Elizabeth so I naturally thought she was their daughter and that is how my information has spiraled.
All I was really looking for was the Marriage of Daniel and what issue he had but I have gone from bad to worse.
Can you help straighten out my mess usually I am not like this.
By the way not that it is any good now but I did locate Rebecca and she was in the 1851 census under the name of Syzling and her name was listed as Rebe not Rebecca.
Colin
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trish251
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 8241
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Hi Colin
I found Daniel and Elizabeth living alone in 1841, which was why I originally queried your information re Rachel. Interesting that someone else found her with the couple  There were, however, a number of other Riches on the same page, so perhaps this may give some other leads. Here is what I found
1841 Norfolk Lodden HO107/779/14 ED 13 page 3 and 4
Address: Rampant House (or Horse)
John Riches 30 Miller
Susanna do 30
Elizabeth do 6
Susanna do 4
John do 1
Eunice Eastaugh 20 FS
Charlotte Butcher 15 FS
(All born in County)
Address: Near Rampant Horse
John Riches 50 Farmer
Charlotte do 50
Rebecca Riches 15
John Newham 8
(All born in County)
Address: The Street
Daniel Riches 55 blacksmith
Elizabeth do 45
(All born in County)
Trish
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