ainsley
RootsChat Member
Posts: 113
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Robert Bell
« on: Wednesday 31 January 07 15:32 UTC (UK) » |
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Hi Im looking for any information on Robert Bell born c 1853 in Carlise. I know he married Elizabeth  & moved to Middlesbrough in the 1870's but I'm looking for anything on him before his marriage.
Any help gladly appreciated
Ainsley 
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phrishy
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 432
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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There are a number of them born Carlisle, well at least 4 just in the 1871 census alone. If you could give us his father's name and occupation and his own occupation from the marriage certificate and the date he married Elizabeth, more specifically than "in the 1870's" we'll try to find out a bit more
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ainsley
RootsChat Member
Posts: 113
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Hi Phrisy,
I don't know the name of his father, and I havent got his marriage certificate because I dont know exactly when he married Elizabeth??? or her maiden name. I dont know where he married her all I know is that she was from Tynemouth. I only know this information from the 1881 census and up
Thanx Ainsley
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phrishy
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 432
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Tried to find him on the 1881 census but can only find this one - four years younger than yours which seems a bit of a coincidence ....
2 John Street, Middlesbrough
Robert Bell Head Mar 32 Ship Carpenter Cumberland Carlisle
Elizabeth Wife M 25 Durham Monkswearmouth?
Christopher R Son 5 Yorkshire Middlesbro'
Sarah E daur 4 Yorkshire Middlesbro'
Ann M daur 2 Yorkshire Middlesbro'
RG11; Piece: 4847; Folio: 66; Page: 2
YOu will need the birth certificate of one of the children to get the mother's maiden name and so identify the marriage.
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ainsley
RootsChat Member
Posts: 113
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Thnx Phrisy,
I do already have that as a definate match, but Ive just been searching the '61 census and came up with this
RG09 Piece 3654 Folio 98 Pg 21
Take a look see what you think could be a possible match, & I know I need to get a copy of a birth certificate for everthing to fall in to place
I have Robert &his family on the '91census and his age is 38 so that would tie in with him born on '53
Regards Ainsley
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phrishy
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 432
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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You have a mother named Francis in 1861, but I've no idea how you identified that particular family.
In 1861 you have his age at 9 - it MAY have been transcribed as 19, but if so then the transcriber has mistaken a mark written afterwards, probably when numbers on the page were being counted.
In 1881 you have his age at 32
In 1891 you have his age at 38
If I look at 1871 I have a couple of possibles
One is aged 19, a bricklayer born Carlisle and Boarding with George and Eliza Hart in Whitworth, Durham.
Another is already living in Middlesbrough which suggest that he might have moved there with his family quite a while before getting married - if it is him.
Pandin? Place, Middlesbrough, Durham
Christopher Morrell Head Mar 48 Labourer Stockton Durham
Margaret Wife M 44 Carlisle Cumberland
Robert Bell son Unm 21 Carpenter Carlisle Cumberland
George Bell son Unm 18 Labourer Carlisle Cumberland
Margaret daur 14 Scholar Carlisle Cumberland
Leonid Morrell son 11 Scholar Middlesbro Yorkshire
RG10; Piece: 4892; Folio: 31; Page: 55
AND this Robert is a carpenter which fits well with his occupation in 1881, also did he like his stepfather enough to name his first son after him?
So you see I could make quite a number of Robert Bells fit the facts of Carlisle and age - I haven't even spread the net as far as areas within Carlisle, such as the Wigtown entry you have in 1861. There are Roberts born Carlisle living in St Andrew Holborn, London, or Ramsgate Kent and then others born Kirklinton, Acreheads, Bolton or Gilcrux, all in the Carlisle area.
I don't wish to wet blanket your find but I just wanted to show that you need more evidence than a birthplace. You NEED those certificates.
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ainsley
RootsChat Member
Posts: 113
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Hi Phrisy,
I Agree I do need those certificates, not quiet sure how I stumbled across the info from the 61 census think it was just basically by putting in Robert's name and looking at all that came up. I think I need to explain why that one stood out to me most ,which I shood of done in the previous post. The address in Ormesby North Ormesby is actually in Middlesbrough, although I know it say's Guisborough which is just a couple or so miles from North Ormesby. I know the ages for him on the different census vary but that could of just been that the enumorater rote them down rong or he liedabout his age.
I will order certificates to make sure I have the right person
Thanx for your help
Ainsley
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ainsley
RootsChat Member
Posts: 113
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Got Robert & Elizabeth's daughter's birth cert this morning, Elizabeth's maiden name was Laing. Found the Marriage details of Robert bell & Elizabeth Leing in Middlesbrough in dec 1875(9d 1100), must be the same couple. So Robert was definately in Middlesbrough by 1875. Will now get Robert & Elizabeths marriage cert to obtain his father's name
If anyone could find Elizabeth Laing/Leing before 1875 much appreciated
Thanx Ainsley
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phrishy
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 432
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Well again, you are going to need the marriage certificate to be sure of her father, but there are two possibles, this one is the nearer in age.
1871 11 Hardwick Street, Monk Wearmouth Shore, Durham
Alexander Laing Head M 55 Sawyer Berwickshire Arlingham
Ann Wife M 54 Durham Monkwearmouth
Thomas Son Unm 29 Laborer Durham Monkwearmouth
Joseph Son Unm 28 Laborer Durham Monkwearmouth
Alexander son unm 26 Mason Durham Monkwearmouth
James son Unm 21 Mason Durham Monkwearmouth
Elizabeth daur 16 Durham Monkwearmouth
Ellen daur 14 Durham Monkwearmouth
RG10; Piece: 5025; Folio: 38; Page: 69
The other's birthdate is approx 1857 and parents Robert and Mary A.
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ainsley
RootsChat Member
Posts: 113
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Thank you very much Phrishy for all your help , I ordered the certificate earlier today so should have them within the next week or so.
By the way really must appologise I've been spellin your name wrong on every post 
Regards Ainsley
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ainsley
RootsChat Member
Posts: 113
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Just recieved Roberts & Elizabeths marriage cert this morning. they were married 29th nov 1875, Roberts age is 25 he's a widower occupation Waterman & his father was James Bell( deceased) occupation Nailer. Elizabeth is 21, spinster & her fathers name was Alexander Leing occupation Sawyer, so that has definately got to be Elizabeth on the '71 census.
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Geoff E
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2999
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This looks a likely family in 1851
HO107/2430/33
15 East Tower St, Scotch St, carlisle
Sarah PORTER (wid) 60 Dressmaker, Carlisle
James BELL (son in law) 36 Nailor, Longtown
Margt (dau) 25 Carlisle
Sarah PORTER (dau) 13 Hand loom weaver, Carlisle
David PORTER (son) 11 Scholar, Carlisle
Robert BELL (gr son) 1 Carlisle
This could well be the Margaret who was a MORRELL by 1871.
1861
East Tower St
Margaret BELL (wid) 34 Cotton Winder
Robert 11
George 7
All born Carlisle
This was the bottom of what may have been the last page in the Enumeration District ... if there were any children on the next page, the page is now missing. Where's young Maggy?
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phrishy
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 432
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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They look like the same family don't they?
I had a look at the 1861 image as you did Geoff and think there is a page missing, there's just no // or line across at the bottom to finish things off is there? I suspect that Margaret would be on the top line of the next page which isn't there.
I wonder if Ainsley was to go to the Record Office covering Carlisle, or one of the libraries with a local history section, having the 1861 census, would they have a complete copy?
In case you decide to try, this is the reference RG9; Piece: 3918; Folio: 108; Page: 30
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ainsley
RootsChat Member
Posts: 113
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Thnx Phrishy & Geoff for all your help, although I cant see me goin to the Carlise records office any time soon so maybe I will just have to keep guessing that one
Ainsley
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