Welcome, Guest. Please login or register for free.
Did you miss your activation email?
Wednesday 08 October 08 10:39 BST (UK)
Welcome Home Help Shop Search Calendar Login Register
Search Images Online
 
  First Name(s)
Last Name
 
News: Ad: Click here to search Ancestry.co.uk Parish and Probate records

+  RootsChat.Com
|-+  General
| |-+  Travelling People
| | |-+  auchtermuchty smiths
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: auchtermuchty smiths  (Read 339 times)
bobgraham
RootsChat Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 216


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
auchtermuchty smiths
« on: Sunday 04 February 07 17:12 GMT (UK) »
Great grandfather William smith had the brickworks in Auchtermuchty, Scotland. Mother and ancient uncle remember visiting the brickworks on holiday when young and there were always travelers camping in the grounds. They were apparently tolerated, even welcomed, as they visited the house for various things. It occurs to ancient uncle that there was a tie up between GGF William and the travelers. GGGF was also William Smith and listed as tilemaker on his death certificate.
Has anyone any possible connections with William Smith(ca.1800- ?) and William Smith ((ca.1822-1894) of Dunshalt, Auchtermuchty please?
bob
Logged
Cumberland: Graham and Greenop
Yorkshire: Altass
Scottish Isles: McLean
bobgraham
RootsChat Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 216


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: auchtermuchty smiths
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 22 March 07 15:39 GMT (UK) »
just had another chat with ancient uncle and he says Dunshelt and Prestonpans also figure in the story. Ring any bells?
bob
Logged
Cumberland: Graham and Greenop
Yorkshire: Altass
Scottish Isles: McLean
An65
RootsChat Senior
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 388


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: auchtermuchty smiths
« Reply #2 on: Friday 23 March 07 02:18 GMT (UK) »
Here they are on the 1891 Census:

Main St, Auchtermuchty, Fife, Scotland, 1891
(Auchtermuchty ED:3 Line:11 Year 1891)

William Smith 74 (1817) Retd Tilemaker, b. Prestonpans East Lothian
Janie Smith 31 (1860) Grandaughter b.Falkland, Fife
Logged
bobgraham
RootsChat Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 216


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: auchtermuchty smiths
« Reply #3 on: Friday 23 March 07 08:09 GMT (UK) »
Thanks. I have them on the census's but no evidence to say they were Romanies and no idea of how or where to look.
bob
Logged
Cumberland: Graham and Greenop
Yorkshire: Altass
Scottish Isles: McLean
An65
RootsChat Senior
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 388


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: auchtermuchty smiths
« Reply #4 on: Friday 23 March 07 08:23 GMT (UK) »
I think your next step would be to try and uncover William Smiths baptism, hopefully at Prestonpans, and see what his fathers occupation was. That would probably be your biggest clue as to their origins.
Logged
bobgraham
RootsChat Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 216


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: auchtermuchty smiths
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 24 March 07 10:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi again.
I don't have a baptism but I have the banns for father william in 1821 and he is listed as labourer.
On young Williams death certificate, 1894, he is listed as "retired brick-work manager" and his father (cos scottish certificates give you lots more info than the english ones) is listed as "brick and tile maker (deceased)". Would you consider brick and tile making to be Romany type professions?
And of course it was the Romanies living at the brick works that brought up this speculation in the first place.
bob
Logged
Cumberland: Graham and Greenop
Yorkshire: Altass
Scottish Isles: McLean
An65
RootsChat Senior
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 388


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: auchtermuchty smiths
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 24 March 07 17:04 GMT (UK) »
Whilst it might seem quite unusual for Rom to settle and take "gorja" jobs that early in the 1800s, I have seen it - so I wouldnt like to rule it out as a possibility. Sagey Heron and Righteous Gray settled at Kingsthorpe Northants, and they were named on the Heron Pedigree. So whilst Id hedge my bets saying he was probably a gorja, its possible he was a settled traveller. Now how you would be able to find out, I really dont know....
Logged
bobgraham
RootsChat Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 216


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: auchtermuchty smiths
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 24 March 07 20:46 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks for your help/input.
As an aside, we here in Cumbria ( but we still think as Cumberland) say gadgie for a flattie.  Where does gorja originate?  It is obviously the same root. Maybe we should start a whole new thread on regional Romany words.
Having said that is "flattie" a well known word for a non Romany?
bob
Logged
Cumberland: Graham and Greenop
Yorkshire: Altass
Scottish Isles: McLean
An65
RootsChat Senior
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 388


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: auchtermuchty smiths
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 24 March 07 22:24 GMT (UK) »
I should perhaps add, that if it were me tracing this family Id be casting a sharp eye across all siblings/children/nephews/nieces any relation at all in fact, of this William, as its entirely possible that even if he was a non-romany, that his family married into the families that camped on his land, somewhere along the way.

Down here in the south, I havent heard the term "flattie". Gorja (many spellings), is a Rom word for non-Romany folks.
Logged
bobgraham
RootsChat Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 216


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: auchtermuchty smiths
« Reply #9 on: Monday 26 March 07 07:59 BST (UK) »
That's a good idea about the siblings.
Gadgee/gaji (I've never seen it written down) is the same up here in Cumbria and flattie is a traveller who's settled down.
bob
Logged
Cumberland: Graham and Greenop
Yorkshire: Altass
Scottish Isles: McLean
An65
RootsChat Senior
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 388


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Re: auchtermuchty smiths
« Reply #10 on: Monday 26 March 07 09:10 BST (UK) »
Spellings dont matter with Romany as its not really a written language.  Smiley

I guess my ancestors became flatties in 1906 then hehehe.
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »


[Copyright] [Free RootsChat Webspace] [Your Surname Interests] [Shrink Link] [About Us] [Terms of Use]
All Census Lookups are Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only
RootsChat.com cannot be held responsible directly or indirectly for the messages or content posted by others. Inline images in messages are the copyright of the respective linked sites.
RootsChat.com, Europa House, Bury, Lancashire, BL9 5BT
0.252:20