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Topic: 1851 1861 Census - Buist (Midlothian in 1841) (Read 260 times)
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Anarchia
RootsChat Member
Posts: 101
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have searched Freecen and the Scotland's People site to try to find an entry on the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses for three famlies that I have on the 1841 census and whom I know are in Scotland after 1851, in both cases, and I would have expected in Scotland in 1861 and 1871.
Family 1:
William Buist, b. abt 1804, wife Euphemia, b. abt. 1807.
1841 Census: 19 India Place, St Cuthbert's, Midlothian, Scotland (SCT1841/685)
Both described as 'born out of county'
Both died in Edinburgh, William on 18 Oct 1871, Euphemia on 7 Apr 1884.
Family 2:
Richard Buist, b. 12 Jan 1831, in Edinburgh
With his parents at the earlier address in 1841.
Helen, his wife (nee Winchester) b. Abt 1834
1841, with her family in Fochabers, Bellie, Morayshire, Scotland
This couple married in1856 in Aberdeen.
I know Helen came to New Zealand with at least one child. Death records in NZ suggest that was in about 1870. I don't have a record of death for Richard Buist in New Zealand and haven't found one in Scotland.
I also can't find Helen Winchester's family after 1841 - but am more interested in the Buist's right now.
I assume that if I can't find these families on Scotland's People they were not in Scotland. But that seems odd given the marriages and deaths there.
Help?!
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Baxter, Yorkshire Bezant - Wiltshire
Bluett - Suffolk Buist - Scotland
Chadwick, Yorkshire Gwatkin - Chepstow
Johnson - Ragnall Mason - Nottingham
Mettam - Sutton Parker - Ayrshire
Ryde - Middlesex Smith - London
Tunnard - Tuxford Winchester - Moray
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3548
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Hi
Here they are in 1851, mistranscribed as BAIST
1851 Census Scotland Midlothian
Edinburgh St Culthberts
Fairnington Place
BAIST
William Head Marr 41 Hosker England
Euphemia Wife Marr 41 Alloa Clamananshire
Richard Son Unmarr 19 Tinsmith St Cuthberts Edinburgh
Janet Dau Unmarr 15 St Cuthberts Edinburgh
Joseph Son Unmarr 10 St Cuthberts Edinburgh
William Son Unmarr 7 St Cuthberts Edinburgh
Margaret Dau Unmarr 4 St Cuthberts Edinburgh
Jean Dau Unmarr 1 St Cuthberts Edinburgh
1861 Census Scotland Aberdeenshire
St Nicholas
4 Park Place
BUIST
Richard Head Marr 28 Tinsmith Edinburgh
Mary Wife Marr 25 America Kingston British Subject
Mary Dau Unmarr 4 Aberdeen
Hope that this helps
Karenlee
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3548
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Sorry don't have access to the 1871 in Scotland.
Karenlee
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3548
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Just realised that I put Richard's wife as Mary --- VERY big OOOPPPSSS on my part. It was actually Ellen. And yes, her birthplace was a bit of a surprise. Wonder where she was in 1841?? Should I check for you??
Karenlee
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Anarchia
RootsChat Member
Posts: 101
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I had her down as 'Helen' - I am pretty sure that is correct because it was on the cemetery record, but our family has a big tradition of naming daughter's 'Ellen', so that would also fit. (Her daughter Mary named her eldest 'Ellen'). That also helps explain my failure to find them in 1861 - I was searching for 'Helen'.
I have the census record for her with her family in 1841, age 7 at Fochabers, Bellie, Morayshire, Scotland. Her father's name was John Winchester, and her mother was Mary (I have a different maiden name from every source for her so far!).
I would be grateful if you could search the 1851 census records, as I would love to sort of place of birth for her and her parents.
Thanks again!
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Baxter, Yorkshire Bezant - Wiltshire
Bluett - Suffolk Buist - Scotland
Chadwick, Yorkshire Gwatkin - Chepstow
Johnson - Ragnall Mason - Nottingham
Mettam - Sutton Parker - Ayrshire
Ryde - Middlesex Smith - London
Tunnard - Tuxford Winchester - Moray
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3548
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Helen and Ellen are pretty much inter-changeable.
This looks like them in 1851
1851 Census Scotland Aberdeenshire
Aberdeen West
Chapel Court 61 Gallowgate
WINCHESTER
John Head Marr 51 Beadle of St Paul's Chapel Elgin Morayshire
Mary Wife Marr 49 Portsmouth England
Elizabeth Dau Unmarr 20 Dressmaker Charlemont Ireland
Helen Dau Unmarr 16 Milliner Kingston America
Eliza Dau Unmarr 14 Scholar Upper Canada America
Amelia Dau Unmarr 12 Scholar Upper Canada America
John Son Unmarr 10 Scholar Lochabers Morayshire
This makes it even more fun now. Canada and Ireland. Cool
Cheers
Karen
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3548
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Sorry , but they just don't want to be found. I will keep looking though
Cheers
Karenlee
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3548
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Regarding Euphemia's birth, it was recently pointed out to me by others on this list, when I complained about similar difficulties, was that people had to pay to register their BDM. Sometimes they just did not bother or may not have been able to afford it. So chances are that you may never find her.
Karenlee
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Anarchia
RootsChat Member
Posts: 101
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Do you think that it is reasonable to assume that the James Drummond in Alloa is the James Drummond who is recorded as her father on her marriage cert, given that James's wife is a Euphemia, and they were married in Alloa, where she was said to be born? (Her death cert. says her maiden name is Euphemia Drummond Buist and her father was James Buist, Mother maiden name Drummond, but from other searches I have done, I think that this is just wrong.)
I wondered whether they left Scotland after 1905? James Drummond was in the Fifeshire Militia, so maybe he was posted somewhere else. Alternatively, maybe they just didn't bother recording/baptising girls, given they have a 6 year gap between marriage and first son in Alloa, and only have sons recorded as born in Alloa. I know I am grasping at straws, but what do you think?
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Baxter, Yorkshire Bezant - Wiltshire
Bluett - Suffolk Buist - Scotland
Chadwick, Yorkshire Gwatkin - Chepstow
Johnson - Ragnall Mason - Nottingham
Mettam - Sutton Parker - Ayrshire
Ryde - Middlesex Smith - London
Tunnard - Tuxford Winchester - Moray
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karenlee
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3548
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It was not just girls that they did not bother with, marriages and births of sons did not get recorded officially because of lack of money or enthusiasm.
Death certificates are not the best source of information, apart from who died, when, where and what of. A lot of the time the information was given by someone who did not really know who the persons' parents really were. If the person was quite old, chances are that anyone who knew has long since died too.
I would go for a birth to James and Euphemia in Alloa for the very reasons you use - the place and time are pretty right, her father was a James, and she could well have been named after her mother. Ignore the reference to BUIST as a part of her maiden name. Lots of Scottish women kept their maiden names after marriage, using it as kind of a second or third Christian name, which is what has probably happened here, thus her being known as DRUMMOND BUIST.
Cheers
Karenlee
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