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Topic: LIDDELL of Bodmin (Read 394 times)
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bcharles4
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Has anybody done any work on the Liddells of Bodmin?
I am just starting to map them out and would like to avoid duplicating somebody else's work
BC
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 02 September 09 03:32 UTC (UK) by krisesjoint »
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bcharles4
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I've just found a mention under the Martyn family topic. Is dmollison there?
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bcharles4
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have now mapped out the Liddells back to James Liddell born 1765 who appears to be the first to come to Cornwall (in the 1780s). He appears to have come from Lancashire (see below). Anybody know anything about Liddells there?
Best wishes
Barrie
The Royal Cornwall Gazette of 22 August 1889 has a long obituary on James' son Commander James Liddell. Here is an extract:
‘His father was a native of Lancashire, but Commander Liddell was born at Bodmin, his parents having settled in Cornwall in the closing decade of the last century.’
This article is of course a hundred or so years after James Liddell came to Cornwall and presumably relies on information from relations of James junior, so we can't be sure that it's correct. In addition his mother Mary was Cornish, so the article got it at least slightly wrong. However, this information would appear to be all that we have concrete to go on so far.
The IGI reveals that there were Liddells in Lancashire at the appropriate date, but I cannot find a suitable birth of a James around 1765. It's a mystery why he went to Cornwall. Presumably he would have been apprenticed to a printer to learn his trade. But whereso, in Manchester or Liverpool perhaps, or maybe in Exeter, Plymouth or Truro? I wonder if the connection with the Martyns came first. Are there any Printers in that family?
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Tom Piper
RootsChat Member
Posts: 249
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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There are numerous mentions of James Liddell, Bodmin in the Exeter newspapers from the turn of the 19th century, mostly in adverts for pills and lotions, his name or himself endorsing same.
He also appears as being a person who paid Fire Insurance.
The Manchester Times has the announcement of his death:
Manchester Times Saturday, August 24, 1889
Liddell: on the 15th inst., at Castle Street, Bodmin, James Liddell, commander R. N. for many years captain of the Wellington, aged 91
Following on from this there are around 19 entries for The Wellington on the run to Madras with Captain Liddell, from around 1833 onwards
Tom
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Tom Piper
RootsChat Member
Posts: 249
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I added this resource on the India resources site-it's worth a visit again if you want to see the entries for Captain Liddell. Just put Liddell, Madras.
Allen's Indian Mail, and Register of Intelligence for British and Foreign India, China and all parts of the East.
http://books.google.co.nz/books?q=editions:OCLC12933469&id=wbUOAAAAQAAJ&sou
There are volumes for 1845, 1846, 1847, 1848, 1849, 1850, 1851, 1852, 1856, all searchable, very addictive.
Tom
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bcharles4
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Tom
I am most interested in Capt Liddell's father, James Liddell. Do you think that the entry in the Manchester newspaper is an indication that his father came from that town?
Also, the mentions in the Exeter newspapers, would they be to father or son? If the father, which titles?
Thanks for your help,
Barrie 
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Tom Piper
RootsChat Member
Posts: 249
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The fact that a Cornish death was copied to a Manchester newspaper, who took the trouble both to report it and give an obituary would indicate to me that there certainly was a Liddell connection in Lancashire. Very often I have found that such deaths when reported were accompanied by a comment (copy to Manchester newspapers)
Certainly the Liddell mentions in the early 1800's just say Liddell Bodmin, it would appear that he owned a shop in Bodmin:
This is the entry:
Trewman's Exeter Flying Post Thursday, March 6, 1800
To be had of R. Trewman and Son Exeter, NATIONAL MAGAZINE (on an enlarged plan)
On Saturday next, the 1st of March will be published Price one shilling.
The Naval magazine, for February, 1800, containing twenty-four pages of Letter- Press extraordinary; and embellished with an elegant portrait of earl St. Vincent, K.B, engraved by GRANGER, from a picture by ABBOT.
This truly Magazine comprehends a compleat naval history of Great Britain………….etc
Printed for Harrison, Cluse and Co no. 78, Fleet-st, and sold by Trewman and Co, Exeter, Haydon, Plymouth; Syle, Barnstaple;Hoxland or Congdon, Plymouth-dock;Jackson, Dartmouth; Handford or Manning, Bideford; Huxtable, Southmolton; LIDDELL, BODMIN; Martin, Launceston etc, etc.
There are numerous others like it, around 160 entries, just for Bodmin.
There are other Liddell connections in Lancashire, it's just a matter of you getting access to the database your self and putting in the Liddell surname and restricting it to Lancashire newspapers.
All that info comes from 48 British national newspapers available from gale Databases, but available online at Lancashire Library.
Yes easy-if in Uk, or abroad, go to
http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/onrl/
You will see the database on the right of the screen. You have to join the library first, yes join it as you would any other library.
Go to http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/libraries/borrower/join.asp
They send you a library ticket, with a serial number upon it and use that number to gain access. You do have to give you home address, so they can send you the library ticket. If abroad, then they send you the ticket number online. It's all explained on the website. It's very addictive.
You can also do it through Cornwall public libraries if you are a member, and others as well, but this is available to anyone online where ever they are.
Tom
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bcharles4
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Tom
Thanks very much for all the info and I will certainly try and get onto the database. I live in Oxfordshire so there should be several options. I also sometimes go to Colindale to consult their vast library of newspapers.
James Liddell senior was born around 1765 and came to Bodmin in the late 1780s to set up as a stationer, bookseller and printer. He was certainly there by 1790, and later information speaks of 1787. The only reference I had found to Lancashire (before your message) was in his son's obituary 100 years later.
Best wishes
Barrie
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Tom Piper
RootsChat Member
Posts: 249
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Barrie,
The same database shows that James Liddell was in Bodmin in 1809, as an agent for Fire Insurance. A bit later there is mention of a WH Liddell, a cadet in RN, son of Lt James Liddell, receiving an award. Any connections? This was in 1847.
Tom
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bcharles4
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Tom
WH is probably William Henry Liddell, born 1833 and son of James junior, who rose to be a Captain. If you want the whole Liddell dynasty in Bodmin up to 1900, I have it courtesy of Denis Mollison of this website.
Barrie
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bcharles4
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 8
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Tom
I've now joined Lancashire Libraries (they give you a temporary number online) and looked at the Gale database. It's a very useful resource.
One question: for the Manchester Times of 24 Aug 1889 you said that they 'took the trouble both to report it and give an obituary'. I could only find the death notice that you quoted originally. Is there an obituary elsewhere?
Best wishes
Barrie
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Tom Piper
RootsChat Member
Posts: 249
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Barrie,
Yes now you will have some fun: Sorry to mislead you, not an obit, but a bit more about his career in Hampshire Telegraph, just put in a search for James Liddell and all papers and year 1889 and see what happens.
Tom
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dmollison
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 18
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Just seen this thread ..
I'm descended from William Liddell (1802-54), who emigrated to Madras in 1833 in the "Wellington" captained by his older brother James.
I append a note giving the 10 children and 39 grandchildren of James Liddell (ca. 1764/5 - 1839) and Mary Martyn (1770-1845).
[Mary also came from a huge family - her children were among about 160 fourth generation descendants of Thomas Martyn & Gertrude Turnavine who married in 1696 in St Columb Minor - see Martyn tree thread on this site.]
I also have details on most of the next couple of generations, including where they were at the 1841-1901 censuses, and extensive notes on some of the more interesting ones, including the second son James (1798-1889) [His naval career, 1812-25, merchant navy career 1825 - ca. 1845, etc etc - some of his ship logs survive, and I've asked if I can see at least a sample ...].
One easy aspect of research is that virtually all mentions of Liddell in Cornwall up to 1901 refer to this family.
The difficult aspect is where the first James Liddell came from, so I'll be very interested if any of you come up with anything concrete, in Lancashire or elsewhere. [Another possibility is central Scotland, where there are several Liddells related to papermaking or bookselling, but I've found nothing definite so far.]
The earliest claim for him in Cornwall is in Allnutt (1901), `Notes on the introduction of printing presses into the smaller ..'
1787 list starts with:
BODMIN. James Liddell [His son, Capt. James Liddell]
- presumably meaning the latter (1798-1889) was his source.
More reliable are adverts from 1790 onwards showing he was active as a bookseller in Bodmin. He was elected a town councillor in 1805.
Look forward to hearing any more you can provide.
Best wishes
Denis
----------------------------------------------------------------
Here follow JL & MM and their children and grandchildren.
---
You can also find them as part of my family tree on
http://www.mollison.org/tree/fam/Liddell.html
---
James Liddell
Printer, stationer and seedsman, Bodmin, from ca. 1790
b. ca. 1765, , parents ? (age at death given in newspaper as 74)
d. 13 Jul 1839 Bodmin
m. 31 Mar 1793 St Columb Minor, Mary Martyn (16 Apr 1770 - 21 Jun 1845)
children:
Margaret Martyn Liddell (4 May 1794 - 18 Dec 1875)
John Liddell (20 Mar 1796 - 5 Apr 1861)
James Liddell (ca. 1798 - 15 Aug 1889)
Silas Hiscutt Liddell (6 Jan 1800 - 16 Apr 1872)
William Liddell (24 Mar 1802 - 22 June 1854)
Thomas Liddell (10 Jan 1804 - 22 Mar 1885)
Elias Hiscutt Liddell (27 Jan 1807 - Jul 1863)
Henry Liddell (8 Apr 1808 - 15 Apr 1884)
Mary Liddell (24 May 1810 - ca. Nov 1870)
Gertrude Liddell (28 Jan 1813 - )
- message too long, will post grandchildren next -
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dmollison
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 18
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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- message continued - the next generation -
Margaret Martyn Liddell
Printer and bookseller stationer (1851)
c. 4 May 1794, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
d. 18 Dec 1875,
John Liddell
Printer and bookseller stationer etc
c. 20 Mar 1796 Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
d. 5 Apr 1861,
m. 11 Apr 1825 Bodmin, Mary Stone Harvey (30 May 1800 - ca. Feb 1870)
children:
Edward Trescott Liddell (ca. 1828 - ca. Nov 1900)
m. ca. Aug 1881 London, Jessie Dean (ca 1845 - after 1900)
- note - ME also gives Eleanor Harvey Liddell (1833 - ), but this looks like
a misreading of the 1841 census
James Liddell
Commander, RN; JP for Bodmin
b. 17 Jan 1798, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
d. 15 Aug 1889, Bodmin
m. 14 Aug 1827, St Columb Minor Gertrude Symons
children:
James Liddell (21 May 1829 - 19 Jun 1849) - Lt, RE
John Worthy Liddell (11 Feb 1831 - 5 Aug 1864) - engineer - d. Venezuela
William Henry Liddell (30 Apr 1833 - ca. May 1880) Capt, RN
m. ca. Nov 1864 Exeter, Catherine Rebecca Kingdon (ca. 1832-1914); 3 children
Gustavus Evans Liddell (28 Apr 1835 - ca. Aug 1894) - schoolmaster
m. ca. May 1882, Plympton, Mary Elizabeth Kingdon (1830-1893)
Anna Gertrude Liddell (9 Nov 1837 - ca. May 1892)
Silas Hiscutt Liddell
Printer and bookseller stationer etc (1851)
c. 6 Jan 1800, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
d. 16 Apr 1872, Bodmin
m. 20 Jun 1832, Bodmin Eleanor Oliver (6 Oct 1801 - ca. Feb 1867)
children:
Mary Helen Liddell (1 Oct 1833 - ca. Aug 1872)
m. 6 Oct 1859 Bodmin, George Bray (ca. 1831 - ); 3 children
Henry Liddell (3 Sep 1834 - ca. Nov 1897) - printer, Bodmin
m 15 Feb 1859 Bodmin, Sarah Harvey (1836 - 1921); 13 children
Silas Hiscutt Liddell (17 Aug 1835 - Mar 1878) - Lt, RN
m Sep 1859 Stoke Damerel, Maria Jane Wallis (1835-1923); 4 children
John Liddell (24 Nov 1837 - ) - printer, Bodmin
m ca. May 1877, Mary May; 5 children
Eleanor Liddell (14 May 1839 - ca. Nov 1900) - bookseller and stationer, Bodmin
Elizabeth Liddell (20 Nov 1840 - after 1901)
Jane Liddell (20 Sep 1842 - ?1889)
Harriet Gertrude Liddell (2 Jul 1844 - ca. Feb 1911) - stationer
m 13 Apr 1874 Bodmin, William Solomon Tonkin,- ironmonger; 3 children
Charles Liddell (20 Feb 1846 - )- manager of printing works, India (1881)
m ca. 1875 Emma - (ca. 1855-); 2 children
Agnes Shepheard Liddell (22 Mar 1848 - ca. May 1922) - schoolmistress
m 24 Jul 1873, William Henry (1848-1878) - accountant; 2 children
William Liddell
Surgeon, Coroner of Madras 1841-1854
c. 24 Mar 1802 Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
d. 22 June 1854 Madras
m. 1 Sep 1827 Chelsea, Susanna Sophia Austin (1804-1853)
children:
Susan Gertrude Liddell (29 Nov 1828 - ca. Dec 1911)
m 20 Apr 1847 Madras, George Walker (1818-1904) East India merchant; 11 children
Mary Helen Liddell (11 May 1830 - )
Emily Darke Liddell (12 Jan 1832 - ca. May 1908)
m ca. 1855, Alfred John Byard (1822-1880) - EI merchant; 6 children
Annie Ashton Liddell (17 Dec 1833 - )
William Byam Liddell (10 Sep 1835 - ca. Nov 1901) - EI merchant
m 24 March 1863 Madras, Jane Maclure (1840- ); 3 children
James Martyn Liddell (10 Aug 1837 - 1848)
John Henry Liddell (26 May 1839 - )
Thomas Liddell
Farmer, Treglines, 1841 and 1881
c. 10 Jan 1804, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
d. 22 Mar 1885, Bodmin
m1. 27 Oct 1828, Bodmin Amy Vercoe (1807-1872)
children:
Thomas Liddell (1 Sep 1829 - ?1888) - farm bailiff
Margaret Mary Liddell (4 Dec 1831 - 12 Aug 1899)
m. 30 Sep 1856 St Minver, Samuel Symons (1827-1917) - farmer, Pentire; 3 children
Henry Liddell (22 Jun 1833 - after 1901) - railway manager
m. ca. Feb 1855 Camberwell, Jane Grace Whetter (1827-1913); 5 children
Ellen Liddell (ca. 1835 - ca. Aug 1865)
m. ca. Nov 1864 Bodmin, Benjamin Hawken - farmer; 1 child
m2. ca. Nov 1873 Marylebone, Harriet Walker
Elias Hiscutt Liddell
Merchant, Bodmin
c. 27 Jan 1807, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
d. Jul 1863, Bodmin
m. ca. May 1843, Stoke Damerel Louisa Randall
children:
George Liddell (29 Aug 1844 - )
m. ca. Aug 1871 Plymouth, Mary Lewin (1846- )
Henry Liddell
Deputy Inspector Of Hospitals R N
c. 8 Apr 1808, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
d. 15 Apr 1884, Plympton St M
m. ca. Nov 1843 Stoke Damerel, Agnes Shepheard
children:
Henry John Shepheard Liddell (20 Nov 1854 - ca. Nov 1908)
m1. ca. May 1878 Falmouth, Jessie Carne (1859-1890); 2 children
m2. ca. May 1892, Kingston, Emily Mary Daniell (ca. 1861- )
Mary Liddell
Schoolmistress, 1841
c. 24 May 1810 Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
d. ca. Nov 1870, Chelsea
m. 29 Dec 1842 Bodmin, Elias Octavius Symons - architect (cousin, his 2nd marriage)
children:
James Symons (ca. Aug 1845 - ca. Aug 1846)
Charles Symons (ca. Feb 1847 - )
Mary Symons (ca. Nov 1848 - ?ca. Feb 1849)
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dmollison
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 18
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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- and finally -
Gertrude Liddell
to Canada 1851/2 with family (5 children b. Cornwall, 2 Canada)
c. 28 Jan 1813, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
m. 9 Jan 1837 Bodmin, John Parkin Vercoe (his 2nd marriage)
children:
Henry Liddell Vercoe (Oct 1840 - 1897), Physician; 4 children
m. ca. 1868, P A -
Gertrude Vercoe (ca. Nov 1843 - )
m. ca. 1875, Thomas Roberts - in c1880, no ch.
John Vercoe (16 Oct 1845 - 8 Mar 1897)
m. 21 Aug 1872 St Thomas, Emily Elizabeth Jackson
James Vercoe (ca. Aug 1847 - )
Mary Liddell Vercoe (ca. May 1850 - )
m. ca. 1875, Samuel Hutchins (ca. 1848- ); 3 children (in c1880)
Margaret Liddell Vercoe (2 Oct 1852 - 2 Jun 1885); ?2 children
m. 20 Mar 1872 Sparta, Edward Byron Haight
Charlotte D Vercoe (ca. 1855 - ); in c1880 with bro. HL, single,
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