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Topic: Parish Registers (Read 7941 times)
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griz
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 513
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Hi Peter, well done! 
I hope the people of the governing board, as well as Dr Durrant, realize they had better do something positive regarding public access to these records as this issue will not go away.
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Boyle, Co. Leitrim Boyle, Co. Tyrone, Shaughnessy, Co in Ireland unknown, and Manchester, UK. Pope, Cheshire. Chadwick, Speke, Lancs. Frankish, Hunmanby, Yorks. Brindley, Audley, Staffs and Middlesex.
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joanne56
RootsChat Member
Posts: 198
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Did anybody start a petition on this matter?
Joanne
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Gorman, Kelly, Shields, Brannan; Scotland/Ireland
Bailey,Macclesfield/Manchester
Parry, Davies; Staffordshire/ Manchester
Siddall, Walker, Mercer; Manchester
Davis, Henshaw; Middlesex/London
Wicks, Harbor; Berkshire
Weedon, Harland;Yorkshire
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Peter Hyde
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 86
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This is what Dr. Durrant, Chief Archivist for Berkshire wrote to me following their June meeting. It seems to say that the status-quo of inaccessibiltiy via the Internet will be maintained.
"18 June 2007
Dear Mr Hyde
Thank you for your messages to Archives Board members concerning publication of parish register transcripts. Board members have asked me to reply to you on their behalf.
Board members considered a way forward for granting permissions for publication of such scripts. Board concluded that they wished to see Berkshire Record Office develop licences to permit publication. We are now tasked with developing an agreement for such licences. Board have asked that the agreement includes terms relating to intellectual property rights in transcripts or indexes, rights for re-use, quality control processes for creating and checking transcripts or indexes, a commitment to a royalty based on use or sales of them, and a time period for which licences would last. These agreements will be required of any organisation or individual seeking to publish transcript or index information from any items which we hold.
While we set about this we have also recommenced a dialogue with the Diocese of Oxford. I have to say that the initial Diocesan view is not to permit any publication of transcripts or indexes online. We will, however, continue our discussion with them in the hope that we can reach an agreement that satisfies owners, custodians and users alike.
The situation regarding publication of transcripts by freereg is therefore unchanged from our correspondence earlier this year. I appreciate that this will be disappointing. I would like to assure you that we are still happy to offer you, or anyone else unable to visit, access to parish registers through our paid research service.
Yours sincerely
PETER DURRANT
County Archivist"
Regards
Peter Hyde
Alberta, Canada
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Norfolk (Depwade District)- Nudds, Betts, Bush, Websdale
Berkshire (Thatcham) - Hyde/Hide, Pocock
Cambridgeshire - Wayman, Amory, Preece
Suffolk - Nudds, Steward, Greenleaf
Essex (Colchester) Greenleaf
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DudleyWinchurch
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 893
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thinking about ownership - when a public company is required to maintain records by an Act of Parliament, those records are public records and the LLC is required to publish its accounts and make them freely available to share-holders in a manner proscribed by government regulations.
So when an organisation like the Church is required by Act of Parliament to maintain records, could it not be argued that those records are public records and must be made freely available to church members in a manner proscribed by government regulations, and not just in a manner seen fit by the local archivist?
I am prepared to swallow my agnostic beliefs and dig out my baptism record to prove membership!
Regards
Peter Hyde
Alberta, Canada
This is a very important point - not put strongly enough.
The older registers were required by law for the whole of the population of England - later, concessions were made to some groups.
There should be no need to demonstrate membership to prove right-of-access.
Any copyright that still exists is on the films or transcripts - copyright on the original documents surely expired long ago for those of greatest interest (I seem to recall a fifty year limit used to apply to copyright, or does that only apply to items in print as opposed to manuscript publications).
Is the Bishops transcript of these records stored in the same place?
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McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, Cuthbert, Quirk, O'Malley (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)
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joanne56
RootsChat Member
Posts: 198
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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We need a good lawyer methinks...
Joanne
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Gorman, Kelly, Shields, Brannan; Scotland/Ireland
Bailey,Macclesfield/Manchester
Parry, Davies; Staffordshire/ Manchester
Siddall, Walker, Mercer; Manchester
Davis, Henshaw; Middlesex/London
Wicks, Harbor; Berkshire
Weedon, Harland;Yorkshire
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joanne56
RootsChat Member
Posts: 198
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Have just read a thread on the closure of Churches due to lack of funds for their upkeep and can't help thinking that the solution to both problems lies in their assets ....namely ..Parish Registers and "Heritage". maybe the revenue should go to the Church, maybe it's time to re-invent themselves, as all other businesses and going concerns have to, and .. maybe rootschatters should be the campaigners for this, after all we know just how much this service is desired and we are all sad to see yet another Church, and Graveyard bulldozed to make way for, carparks, flats, office buildings and the like.
I am not a Religious person but view the Churches and the roles they played in our ancestors lives as something worth preserving.
Any takers for mounting some sort of campaign?
Joanne
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Gorman, Kelly, Shields, Brannan; Scotland/Ireland
Bailey,Macclesfield/Manchester
Parry, Davies; Staffordshire/ Manchester
Siddall, Walker, Mercer; Manchester
Davis, Henshaw; Middlesex/London
Wicks, Harbor; Berkshire
Weedon, Harland;Yorkshire
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newburychap
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 747
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There should be no need to demonstrate membership to prove right-of-access. There isn't any such requirement - PRs deposited in record offices are freely available to all who bother to come subject only to the need to preserve the state of the books - so most will be available via film/fiche in the first place with the real thing only being brought out when the copy is illegible. There is no clause in any so called 'right of access' that says that the documents have to be made available on the internet - record offices have reading rooms principally to provide for the legal requirement to make their records available to the public.
Any copyright that still exists is on the films or transcripts - copyright on the original documents surely expired long ago for those of greatest interest (I seem to recall a fifty year limit used to apply to copyright, or does that only apply to items in print as opposed to manuscript publications). Copyright is a complicated beast but the view of many archivists is that the originals are copyright until 2039 or thereabouts - this is not an unreasonable interpretation of the copyright act of 1989 (UK) which gave all unpublished material 50 years protection from the date of the act. I doubt this interpretation has been tested in law.
Is the Bishops transcript of these records stored in the same place?
No.
BTs are held by the diocesean archives - the case of Berkshire this means Oxfordshire Record Office (since 1836ish) and Wiltshire and Swindon RO (pre1836). The ORO are under the same constraints as Berks RO when it comes to publication of diocesan records . In any case there is less claim that BTs are public records than PRs (which where initiated by a governmental edict).
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Currently researching: Newbury pubs & inns - the buildings, breweries and publican families. Member of Newbury District Field Club - www.ndfc.org.uk |
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DudleyWinchurch
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 893
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Newburychap,
Thanks for the detailed clarification. Sorry, I hadn't seen it earlier but didn't get any notification of your response.
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McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, Cuthbert, Quirk, O'Malley (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)
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Thanks for your great reply Peter. Again, very informative.
and there's the answer, for why they get away with it... no takers,