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Topic: Parish Registers (Read 7946 times)
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Vicwinann
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 658
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Quote but you need to understand that making records available via RO search rooms is all that is required of the archivists. Unquote
So they do the absolute statutory minimun to gain what they perceive as the maximum. Revenue, that is.
Some of us don't necessarily want online records, but we are asking why the BRO is not even prepared to allow other people - ie local history society volunteers, to transcribe, or for it to sell copies of transcribed/untranscribed fiche/cds as do other RO's. I have bought copies of Parish Record fiche/booklets/cds from a number of RO's. If they can do it why can't Berkshire? And why do they charge such exorbitant prices for simple documents? That is, in comparison with many other RO's.
Passing the buck backwards and forwards from the Church of England to the RO to the Local Authorities, is just that:- passing the buck. We are not just talking about Church of England Parish Records, but other non conformist churches as well.
Petitions are a waste of time, effort, and money. They just fill up someone's waste paper bin.
One of the reasons why visits to RO's has dropped is not to do with online or published records being available. That is just an excuse to justify saving money by reducing staff and closing places down. The perception is that ROs are unimportant and emptying dustbins is, when the money is shared out. The drop in RO visitor numbers is more to do with the cost of travel, the cost of parking, the cost of photocopies, the cost of taking your own photos, and a number of other things.
Please, Newburychap, stop trying to defend the indefensible. Someone, somewhere, simply does not want Berkshire PRs to be available anywhere but in the RO, at a price. "No" is the answer, and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. That is called power.
Regards
Vicwinann
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Sellwood Berkshire Oxon Lancs Wilts; Cassell Berkshire and Guildford; Leighs Guildford and London; Saunders Portsea, Greenwich and Deptford ; Austin Cookham; Osgood Berkshire; Dack Norfolk; Darling Berkshire and Mapledurham; Wilkins Englefield Berks; Havenhand Derbys; Whileman Derbys; Reedman Derbys, Notts, Australia, Africa; Rottenberry Deptford and Devon;
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Guy Etchells
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1100
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What has been missed in this thread is that neither the Diocesan Archivist or the Bishop hold the copyright of parish registers held in the archives.
The copyright holder is the present incumbent of the particular parish (each parish or group of parishes has a different copyright holder).
Write to the organ grinder not the monkey.
Cheers
Guy
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jillruss
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2920
Gt Gt Grandfather Shepherd from Aberdeen 1827-1910
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I would dearly love to get my hands on the PRs of several Berks parishes but, as I don't live anywhere near, it's not going to happen any time soon. I would be willing to buy transcripts and I would also be willing to help with transcriptions (especially for the parishes I'm interested in!!  ).
I'm still not clear what the problem is in Berkshire.
However, I would like to defend the BRO staff. They always offer a fantastic service even if research prices are a bit steep. Recently, they looked up a whole list of my names in their wills index for free and found several, copies of which were then available for a very reasonable rate.
Going back to VicWinann's point, I must not been looking in the right places because I've never come across an RO which actually sells PR transcripts - FHSs yes, ROs no.
Jill
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See Surname Interests Table +
Major brickwalls:
John Frith mge to Fanny, Bucks? c 1798
Bathsheba Boothroyd bp W Yks c1802
John Bishop bp E Yks c1758
Joseph Symonds mg to Sarah, prob Berks c 1735-40
John Horwood mg to Martha, Berks c 1735-40
Sarah Sculler bp Berks area c 1675
Paul Phillips bp Berks/Bucks c 1720
William Newell bp Berks/Bucks/Oxon c 1765
Richard Troughton mg to Jane, Westmoreland c 1732
Mary Simon bp Shrops c.1795
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newburychap
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 747
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Please, Newburychap, stop trying to defend the indefensible. Someone, somewhere, simply does not want Berkshire PRs to be available anywhere but in the RO, at a price. "No" is the answer, and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. That is called power.
My main interest in 'defending the indefensible' has been to attempt to refute the various misunderstandings and untruths that arise from the conspiracy theories - particularly the ridiculous notion that Berks FHS are somehow responsible for the BRO attitude.
Dr Durrant's letter to Peter Hyde (already published in this thread - I hope Dr D doesn't sue for breach of copyright:)) shows that his customer/boss at the diocese is the first hurdle to overcome - Dr D can do nothing without diocesan approval, he is one of three County Archivists acting as deputy/assistant diocesan archivists, in effect working for the man who has made the decision not to have the PRs digitised. Simply put, he cannot give the permission FreeReg are seeking without diocesan approval.
Guy may be right about ownership - but how many incumbents are going to go against the diocesan policy? Perhaps someone could persuade an incumbent to give permission to scan/publish their PRs, but you won't get them all to go for it.
Another suggestion is that only Berks FHS are allowed to transcribe the PRs and other registers - check out the transcripts available from Oxfordshire FHS and the Eureka Partnership.
And then there is the BRO - who do nothing beyond the minimum - have you seen their Berkshire Enclosure website?
There is also the suggestion that the PRs are only available in the BRO - true for a few - but most Berks PRs have been filmed by the LDS and are available in Family History Centres worldwide, many indexed on the IGI (presumably before the diocese realised what was happening, you won't find many Oxfordshire PRs).
However, I am not going to atempt to defend the £2 a photo charge for taking pictues in the BRO  Personally I will drive past Reading to go to Kew if they both have a copy of a source - TNA does not charge for use of a camera.
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Currently researching: Newbury pubs & inns - the buildings, breweries and publican families. Member of Newbury District Field Club - www.ndfc.org.uk |
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Abiam
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1364
My "garden" by Abiam
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Berkshire Record Office
I live in Spain, I am a pensioner and am on a limited budget.
I was going to put this request on the Common Room board because shortly I will be in Berkshire on my yearly visit to see my family. Maybe here is the best place as everyone seems to know the place well.
As I have never had the opportunity to visit any record office before I would like some personal tips on finding my way around and what is generally involved.
But I am horrified to see that they charge two pounds to use your own camera! and I would not have known this if I had not come across this thread.
This means that if I am successful in finding all the things I want to I could also have a large bill at the end of the day.
There was an earlier point about some Berks records being on the IGI. There are some I agree but there are an awful lot that are not. Especially the ones I need!
So, if anyone can come up with the easiest way for me to make a successful visit I would be extremely grateful.
Regards,
Abiam
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Genealogists never die! They just undertake to join their ancestors!
DOBSON,Berks, Wilts.DOPSON, Fyfield, Wilts
SMITH, WEBB, Little Gransden, Gamlingay, Cambs
WEBB, Hatley St George, Hunts
HUNT, Wanborough, Swindon, Wilts
TUBB, Hungerford, Berks, EGERTON, Highworth, Wilts
WISE, South Australia, WISE, Fawley, Berks
WISE, Bray, Binfield, Berks
WYSE, Wise, Maidenhead, Berks
VINCE, VINCENT, St Mary Bourne, Hants, Bucks, Berks
TUCKWELL ANYWHERE!
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Lesanne
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4989
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 Hi Abiam,
The staff at BRO were very helpful.
E mail the office as you will have to book the table for any larger doc's. They only have the one table.
The BDM index's are all available, but when you see the "actual" register, it's £2 a go on your camera, as said before. You might ask how much a photocopy would be.
If you want to look at older doc's, bring a pair of cotton gloves.
The National Archives "A2A" seemed to have the same index number as in the BRO. I took a few bits of info with me, description and ref numbers from the NA. This did help me find them when I got there.
Write a list of people, their bdm's, place/parish they lived. If you're trying to find someone who ISN'T where they should be..... take a map of the parishes of Berkshire  so you can look in the adjoining parishes.....
The record office is open till 9pm on a Thursday.
The family history office is open till late on a Tuesday.
How useless is that........ They are next door to each other !!!!
You will need photo ID and addy. Pencils, eraser, paper. Other notes.
I came away very dissapointed.... but Oxford RO totally different story... Brilliant.
Good luck, Lesanne.
PS They have Hot drink machine and toilet facilities.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk Berks Bucks Oxon= Norris Coxhead Turner Cox Weston Baston Simpson Kent= Nicholls Mepstead Watts Mile End=Craze Wood Bennett Cork=Howe NZ=Coxhead Canada=Fenn Cox Turner |
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behindthefrogs
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4245
EDLIN
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Hi Abiam, The National Archives "A2A" seemed to have the same index number as in the BRO. I took a few bits of info with me, description and ref numbers from the NA. This did help me find them when I got there. The record office is open till 9pm on a Thursday.The family history office is open till late on a Tuesday. How useless is that........ They are next door to each other !!!! Good luck, Lesanne.
Two points.
A2A is an index to the contents of record offices and so you would expect the references to be the same.
The fact that BFHS and the RO have different late evenings was I believe a deliberate decision which was necessary to enable transcription work to take place on the evening the record office is open.
David
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Living in Berkshire. From Northampton & Milton Keynes DETAILS OF THE FOLLOWING NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley. Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Abiam
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1364
My "garden" by Abiam
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Hi everyone,
Lesanne good to hear from you and thank you. What I shall mostly be looking for will be confirmation of BMD's and hunting down the elusive earlier ones. I tried to follow your scavenger but got totally lost - hope you got there in the end!
David thanks for your input. There is only one land enclosure I would like to find out about. Is there likely to be any more information than the pages I found in the Land Enclosures site?
Vicwinann, thanks will have a look at their website and will reply to you with a pm.
I have started my list and am sure I have too much for one day!
But who knows.....................
Thank you all again,
Abiam
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Genealogists never die! They just undertake to join their ancestors!
DOBSON,Berks, Wilts.DOPSON, Fyfield, Wilts
SMITH, WEBB, Little Gransden, Gamlingay, Cambs
WEBB, Hatley St George, Hunts
HUNT, Wanborough, Swindon, Wilts
TUBB, Hungerford, Berks, EGERTON, Highworth, Wilts
WISE, South Australia, WISE, Fawley, Berks
WISE, Bray, Binfield, Berks
WYSE, Wise, Maidenhead, Berks
VINCE, VINCENT, St Mary Bourne, Hants, Bucks, Berks
TUCKWELL ANYWHERE!
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newburychap
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 747
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E mail the office as you will have to book the table for any larger doc's. They only have the one table.
Only one huge map table (room for several to use it simultaneously) - but a dozen or so places for reading original documents.
The BDM index's are all available, but when you see the "actual" register, it's £2 a go on your camera, as said before. You might ask how much a photocopy would be.
Photocopies and prints from fiche/film are 40 or 50p - much better value that using your own camera.
If you want to look at older doc's, bring a pair of cotton gloves.
Cotton gloves for handling old documents are provided by the BRO
The National Archives "A2A" seemed to have the same index number as in the BRO. I took a few bits of info with me, description and ref numbers from the NA. This did help me find them when I got there.
The A2A index contains entries from many archives (but not the National Archives). Part of the BRO index is there and it is well worth preparing for a visit by checking A2A to see if there is anything of interest. If not then don't give up hope, there is lots that has not yet got to A2A.
The record office is open till 9pm on a Thursday.
The family history office is open till late on a Tuesday.
How useless is that........ They are next door to each other !!!!
Berks FHS gave up opening Thursday evenings because virtually no one turned up.
I came away very dissapointed.... but Oxford RO totally different story... Brilliant.
Berks RO have good facilities and premises - but Oxfordshire is, I agree, a better experience (more indexes and free use of your camera contributing hugely to this).
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Currently researching: Newbury pubs & inns - the buildings, breweries and publican families. Member of Newbury District Field Club - www.ndfc.org.uk |
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newburychap
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 747
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Shame, I didn't get gloves to examine a 400 year old document.
It depends on a) what the document is written on and b) if the assistant thinks to tell you to wear gloves - they are available for anyone to help themselves to. One size fits all - my hands are big so I find myself attempting to manipulate old vellum or parchment with cotton webbed fingers - not ideal.
Hmmm. I didn't think all the ref numbers were the same. Check them out Abiam, take copious notes with you.
When searching A2A select the BRO as the repository and you will get BRO references only, if you search all repositories you will get a mix of BRO and other references.
You can use A2A while you are there if you forget to take the copious notes.
Newburychap, do you work there? 
Fraid not - but I have been a few times...
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Currently researching: Newbury pubs & inns - the buildings, breweries and publican families. Member of Newbury District Field Club - www.ndfc.org.uk |
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