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Author Topic: Murder in Horsforth 1891  (Read 5114 times)

Offline mahees

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Murder in Horsforth 1891
« on: Tuesday 06 March 07 13:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi
I stumbled upon the case of Barbara Waterhouse who was murdered brutally in Horsforth in 1891 aged just 5. Walter Turner later hung for the crime, and his mother Harriet was jailed as an accessory. What  interested me was that according to Harriet's testimony, they visited the workshop of a Thomas Joy in the White Swan Yard off Crown Street, and later, after disposing of the body in Leeds town centre, visited his house. I think Joy was a relative of Harriet Turner.
My GG Grandfather was called Thomas Joy and lived in Leeds at this time. according to the 1891 census he worked as a Labourer and lived in Lumb Square.
Does anyone have more info on this case, or know anything about the Thomas Joy mentioned in this testimony?
I am basically hoping to rule out a connection via the internet, and failing that I will visit Leeds Central Library for further info on the case.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can offer me assistance on this.
Cheers
Erin



Offline hepburn

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Re: Murder in Horsforth 1891
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 06 March 07 14:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi Erin,
         Harriet Joy born 1847 Leeds 23 415,let's see if we can marry her to a Turner..
stoke on trent. carson,wain,leese,shaw,key,scalley,mitchell,
james,
 nottingham,pollard,grice,
derbyshire,vallands,turton,howe.
 new zealand,turton
 canada,carson.
australia,mitchell,scalley,


Has anyone seen Henry Atcherson Carson,born Canada 1844?


Offline hepburn

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Re: Murder in Horsforth 1891
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 06 March 07 14:32 GMT (UK) »
She's the only one who I can find,and Ive just found the case,Walter was 32, so it can't be the above,I can't find a marriage between Turner and Joy either...
stoke on trent. carson,wain,leese,shaw,key,scalley,mitchell,
james,
 nottingham,pollard,grice,
derbyshire,vallands,turton,howe.
 new zealand,turton
 canada,carson.
australia,mitchell,scalley,


Has anyone seen Henry Atcherson Carson,born Canada 1844?

Offline mahees

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Re: Murder in Horsforth 1891
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 06 March 07 14:48 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for that, Oonagh.
There was a George Joy present in the house on the night of the murder who was Harriet's grandson according to the book I've got, it doesn't state the relationship to Thomas Joy, so I'm wondering if the Joys were in-laws of hers. My GG Grandfather's wife's maiden name was McCormack, though she was orphaned as a baby, so I can't entirely rule that out, but it's difficult to work out exactly how Harriet and Thomas were related.
Maybe a daughter's husband if it's not my GG Grandfather,  or a daughter's husband's brother or something. I have just found a Thomas Joy marrying a Jessie Turner in Leeds in 1877, which would seem to rule my GG Grandfather out of the story.
 All speculation so far though.
Cheers
Erin

Offline liverpool annie

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Re: Murder in Horsforth 1891
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 06 March 07 14:57 GMT (UK) »


Hi Erin !

Well I had this site that USED to be free .....  ::) I just tried it and now you have to pay ..... I see you don't need it now - but in case anybody else is reading the thread - I'll post it - it may be of some to somebody ! ( by the way it is a good site !!  :)

http://www.murderfile.net

Annie  :)
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Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I:5

Offline mahees

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Re: Murder in Horsforth 1891
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 06 March 07 15:19 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Annie,
It seems like quite an interesting site anyway, even if it doesn't relate to your family history.
Erin

Offline winston

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Re: Murder in Horsforth 1891
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 06 March 07 16:39 GMT (UK) »
HI

According to The Times newspaper Walter  Lewis Turners mother was Ann?


No Harriet mentioned in the read ups on the court hearings


Wendy
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Blakeley in Batley West Yorks
Turner in Hanging Heaton West Yorkshire
Dann last known area Soothill West Yorks
Hirst in Hanging heaton W Yorks
Moss in Morley and Leeds
Parker in Morley W Yorks
Parker in Hull E Yorks
Tilburns in Morley W Yorks

Offline mahees

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Re: Murder in Horsforth 1891
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 06 March 07 17:32 GMT (UK) »
That's weird. In my book 'Foul Deeds and Suspicious Deaths in Leeds', it says Harriet.
Maybe it was a middle name, or a pseudonym.

Erin

Offline mosiefish

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Re: Murder in Horsforth 1891
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 06 March 07 17:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Looking at the 1891 census the Thomas Joy (aged 47) living at back of Crown Street did have a wife called Jessie (aged 33 born Nottingham) and a son aged 12 called George. Thomas was a Bookbinder and both he and his wife are listed as being Deaf and Dumb.  If you want the full transcript let me know.

Regards,
Mo
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Lancs: Harrison, Entwistle, Devine, Grundy, Ashworth, Freeman, Jackson, Rushton
Cornwall: Rich, Binney, Peake
Devon: Walters