|
Pages: [1] 2
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: Joseph L CARTER - St Albans and Stanstead (Abbotts)/St Margarets (Read 846 times)
|
|
|
CatOne
RootsChat Marquessate
 Offline
Posts: 4818
|
He couldn't have changed his name for some reason could he??
Theres this marriage -
Joseph C Clay Dec 1866 Islington Vol 1b Page 439
On same page - Emily Flack or Sarah A Newell
See 1851 HO107/1713 Folio 249 Page 36 St Albans, Herts
IGI Familysearch site - Joseph Clay chr 05th May 1833 St Peters St Albans
Parents - Thomas Clay and Sarah
I've been looking for a remarriage for his mum to see if that could be the reason for the name change, but not found anything yet, may just be a red herring 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Dunning/Downing, Osborn/e, Astley -Cheshire/Birmingham/Middlesex Fanthorpe/Hall/Driffill/Storm - Lincolnshire Bower/Woodward/Bingham/Pettinger/Shaw - Nottinghamshire Shaw, Marland - Lancashire Broph(e)y - Queens County, Ireland Richards - Neath Swansea Hunt/Fox - Lincs, Waterfield/Middleton - Staffs Hart/Harland/Askew/Scales - Yorkshire Brereton/Vickers - Cheshire Gleaves/Sandford/Hulse/Hulme - Wolstanton/Audley Staffs Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov |
|
|
|
|
CatOne
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4818
|
Hi Denise,
I found this Joseph by chance, searching for Jos* , Keyword St Albans, b.c1833.
Looking for a Joseph and Emily or Sarah Clay on the 1871 census, I found only one Joseph and Emily Clay and they had children over the age of ten so were most likely married much earlier than 1866. And I found 3 Joseph and Sarah Clays, but they too had much older children.
Its strange to not be able to find someone on two censuses (unless they're gypsies, seamen, etc) someone on rootschat can usually uncover them!!  so thats what made me think of a possible name change.....
Of course this theory could be completely wrong! They do like to make thing difficult for us!
Good Luck
Catherine
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Dunning/Downing, Osborn/e, Astley -Cheshire/Birmingham/Middlesex Fanthorpe/Hall/Driffill/Storm - Lincolnshire Bower/Woodward/Bingham/Pettinger/Shaw - Nottinghamshire Shaw, Marland - Lancashire Broph(e)y - Queens County, Ireland Richards - Neath Swansea Hunt/Fox - Lincs, Waterfield/Middleton - Staffs Hart/Harland/Askew/Scales - Yorkshire Brereton/Vickers - Cheshire Gleaves/Sandford/Hulse/Hulme - Wolstanton/Audley Staffs Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov |
|
|
|
|
first-things-first
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 15
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi
I have had a quick look on my 1841 index.
I have traced my family back to St. Albans in 1841 - no Joseph Carters - but maybe just coincidentally have a Henry Carter baptised 5th May 1833 St Peters, St. Albans (as were all the family). Maybe somehow related with the Carter name???
I looked at the 1861 census the lodger Joseph Carter is in Edmonton Middlesex. 1841 gives a Joseph Carter (no other family it seems) in Watford, Herts. Too far? He is 8 years old. Cannot find anything for 1851 like you.
Cheers
Andrew
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: Sunday 25 March 07 12:38 BST (UK) by Rick »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
benzon
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 98
|
Hi Andrew
Thanks for your input. I did do a bit of further searching for Carters in St Albans last night on the IGI using the batch no. which seemed to suggest, if I recall correctly, that there were two Carter families floating around St Albans at the right period but here again there wasn't enough info to make a positive conclusion.
I think there are two births in the Watford area that could be possibles but on both the 71 and 81 it says St Albans. If there were a discrepancy then I would widen my search but at this stage I dont want to go up the wrong alley just to add another generation. Likewise, Joseph and Emily are firmly in this area of East Herts on the 71 and 81, and there is a possible candidate born Broxbourne.
So, who knows, did the enumerator or whoever gave the information, have it wrong on three census returns as 61 gives birthplace as St Albans as well.
I tell you, my mum's lot are proving to be a complete and utter mystery. A supposed father bargeman who trots up the River Lea to Ware, has his fling and disappears(? our interpretation !!) and now a Carter reputed to have been born in St Albans but no trace.
Just out of interest, does your Carter line remain in St Albans or where else did they settle?
Still, it keeps us on our toes and this forum is fantastic for picking other people's brains when you hit that brick wall.
Thanks again, I'll bear in mind what you say.
Cheers
Denise
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
LAWRENCE - Gt Hormead, HUTCHIN - Albury, CARTER/CARTER CLAY - St Albans/Stanstead Abbotts, BURTON - Hoddesdon, WARD - Hunsdon, BEARD - Ware, LEE - Cripplegate/Glemsford
|
|
|
first-things-first
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 15
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Denise
I have found from my experience my Carter's are slippery as well  My great grandfather is shown as Arthur Henry, Henry Charles or just plain Henry on historical documents. Must have loved all his names! Cannot find his birth as yet.
My ancestors (Carter line) navigated towards London - Islington and Shoreditch. I suppose where the work was. Makes it so easy to find a Carter in London  My family have navigated eastwards - Essex now via Wiltshire
Cheers
Andrew
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
benzon
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 98
|
To all those who posted on my message and especially CatOne
Bingo
I did a bit of further research on an elimination basis and then decided that the only way I was going to solve this, one way or another, was to send for the marriage certificate.
Postman has delivered this morning. Joseph C Clay was indeed Joseph Carter Clay. His occupation is stated as joiner and he is described on later census returns as a carpenter. Cert states his father as Thomas deceased so that fits with the St Albans baptism and Emily Flack's father as John Henry Flack deceased which I believe to be correct.
I now have no hesitation in stating that this is my Joseph Carter but mum not convinced. Always knew she wouldn't be impressed.
Does everyone agree that the info on the cert tallies with everything else and this is too much of a coincidence for it to now be a red herring?
Now all I need to find out is why he dropped the Clay, whether the William Clay Carter on the 61 is a brother and how the Carter name fits into it all.
A big THANK YOU CatOne, I dont think I would ever have got there without your help.
Cheers
Denise
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
LAWRENCE - Gt Hormead, HUTCHIN - Albury, CARTER/CARTER CLAY - St Albans/Stanstead Abbotts, BURTON - Hoddesdon, WARD - Hunsdon, BEARD - Ware, LEE - Cripplegate/Glemsford
|
|
|
CatOne
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4818
|
Glad to be of help, Denise, nice to help break down a small brickwall even if I can't break down my own!
I think there are too many coincidences for it not be the correct family. I thought originally maybe the Clay/Carter came from his mum, ie; remarriage or having Joseph pre marriage, but there is a marriage in 1818 that may fit, Thomas Clay to Sarah, maiden name Pearce (no sign of a Carter name) so maybe the Carter name is further back, would be interesting to see the family (plus Thomas and Sarah's parents hopefully) on the 1841 census to see if there are any clues.
Good Luck,
Regards
Catherine
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: Sunday 25 March 07 12:47 BST (UK) by Rick »
|
Logged
|
Dunning/Downing, Osborn/e, Astley -Cheshire/Birmingham/Middlesex Fanthorpe/Hall/Driffill/Storm - Lincolnshire Bower/Woodward/Bingham/Pettinger/Shaw - Nottinghamshire Shaw, Marland - Lancashire Broph(e)y - Queens County, Ireland Richards - Neath Swansea Hunt/Fox - Lincs, Waterfield/Middleton - Staffs Hart/Harland/Askew/Scales - Yorkshire Brereton/Vickers - Cheshire Gleaves/Sandford/Hulse/Hulme - Wolstanton/Audley Staffs Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov |
|
|
|
|
first-things-first
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 15
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Denise
Quick check on my indexes shows no Joseph Clay of ages 5 - 10 living in Hertfordshire in 1841. Searched all parishes.
Assuming they lived there.
Will delve further.
Cheers
Andrew
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: Sunday 25 March 07 12:48 BST (UK) by Rick »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
first-things-first
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 15
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Denise
I have looked through "Jos* Clay" in 1841 census and cannot find any that match the IGI records. As I said before none in Hertfordshire. Also looked at Eliza* Clay, Martha Clay, etc. None came up that fitted. Maybe missing bits from census??
As an aside (maybe helps with later searches) there are families of Flacks and Clays living next door to each other in Mansfield, Nottingham - shown as weavers/knitting. Don't want you to veer off in a wrong direction though!
Do you think the Carter bit is a family christian name like it can be used in the US?
Could these be your flacks in the 1841 census?
Living in Lawshall Suffolk :
John Flack b.1791
Betsey Flack b.1797
Fanny Flack b.1825
Mary Flack b.1828
Eliza Flack b.1829
Emily Flack b.1833
Sarah Flack b.1835
Ann Flack b.1837
All born in County - living in WidenGreen? (something green).
Cheers
Andrew
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
CatOne
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4818
|
Looks like Elizabeth married John Beeson -
Marriage - Elizabeth Clay March 1842 St Albans Vol 6 Page 547
Grooms - John Beeson, John Richardson or Joseph Geary
1851 HO107/1713 Folio 249 Page 37
Adelaide Street, St Albans
John Beeson 34 Tinman & Brazier St Albans
Elizabeth 32 Bonnet Sewer St Albans
/
William Lichfield 32? unmar Lodger Tinman & Brazier Flamstead?
and in 1861 they're at Holywell Hill with "lodger" William Litchfield and his wife Martha + children. Martha is the right age to be Martha Clay and looks like this is the marriage -
William Litchfield June 1851 Luton Vol 3b Page 712
Brides - Martha Clay or Rebecca Mills
Regards
Catherine
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Dunning/Downing, Osborn/e, Astley -Cheshire/Birmingham/Middlesex Fanthorpe/Hall/Driffill/Storm - Lincolnshire Bower/Woodward/Bingham/Pettinger/Shaw - Nottinghamshire Shaw, Marland - Lancashire Broph(e)y - Queens County, Ireland Richards - Neath Swansea Hunt/Fox - Lincs, Waterfield/Middleton - Staffs Hart/Harland/Askew/Scales - Yorkshire Brereton/Vickers - Cheshire Gleaves/Sandford/Hulse/Hulme - Wolstanton/Audley Staffs Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2
|
|
|
|
|
