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Topic: Thomas Gray (Read 1117 times)
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An65
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thomas Gray was born circa 1764 somewhere in Cambridge (supposed not but not essential).
He married Susannah Faben in 1791 at Burwell in Cambridge.
Their children might be familiar with those who have read the likes of Revd George Halls "The Gypsies Parson":
There was Joseph b.1792 at Burwell
Susan b.1795 Burwell married Thomas Gray s/o Foulk/Fowk/Founess & Mary c.1798 Great Shelford Cam
John Budd aka Jack b.1798 March Cam - the much married Jack Gray of folklore who was transported to Van Diemens Land (Tasmania) in 1844 on the Sir Robert Peel along with Elias Boss for horse stealing at Hammeringham Lincs.
Pyramus b.1802 Outwell Cam who married Millia (Amelia) daughter of No Name (Edward) Heron. He died at Louth in 1886.
Maria b.1805 Upwell married Israel Gray she appears on the 1881 census at Queens Court Boston Lincolnshire
William b.1808 d.1808 Upwell Cam
Francis b.1809 d.1812 Outwell Cam
Esther b.1812 married William "Bill" Tansey of Wales. She also lived at Queens Court Boston Lincs.
Contrary to folklore, Pyramus and Jack Gray were not brothers of Oseri Gray. Oseri was the son of an older Ossory Gray who was born in 1777 at Horningsea Cam, the son of Thomas and Elizabeth.
Thomas and Elizabeth appear to have had:
George c.1767 Ashwell Hrts
Obvious links to the family appear with their travelling companions during the censuses and with naming children after apparent relatives. So we appear to end up with a family that looks roughly like this:
Peter Gray b.cir 1745 d.1834 Haddenham (gipsy) age 91
Permessus Gray b.cir 1754 d.1822 Great Marlow Bks
Foulk/Fowk/Founess Gray b.cir 1755 d.1828 St Giles Cam age 91
John Gray b.cir 1750 something, married to Ann and Mary - had children who were known gipsies.
The aforementioned Thomas and Susannah
Charles Gray b.cir 1763 married Aquila Smith
George Gray b.1767 Ashwell Hrts
William Gray b.cir 1775 married Retty/Mretta Smith
Ossory Gray b.1777 Horningsea Cam
Robert Gray b.cir 1779 married Mary Leighton and had known gypsy children
and James b.cir 1780ish who married Sophia Sly.
Sophia Sly was the daughter of James Sly and Sophia Gray... so there must have been an early Sophia as Well.
So please, has anyone, anywhere, come across Thomas and Elizabeth and any of their children? I would be very happy to solve this particular puzzle.
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Grayaust
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Can you please tell me where Robert Gray (married Mary Leighton) fits into the picture with Thomas Gray?
I am reasonably confident I am a descendant of Robert (I need a more solid connection from a son Henry born approx 1804 back to Robert but anecdotal evidence so far is strong) and maybe able to provide some information.
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An65
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thomas Gray married Elizabeth
they MAY have had the following children, or they MAY be siblings or cousins -
Peter Gray b.cir 1745 d.1834 Haddenham (gipsy) age 91
he married Sarah King 1782 at Stotfold Bdf
Permessus Gray b.cir 1754 d.1822 Great Marlow Bks
Foulk/Fowk/Founess Gray b.cir 1755 d.1828 St Giles Cam age 91 married Mary
John Gray b.cir 1750 something, married to Ann and Mary - had children who were known gipsies.
Charles Gray b.cir 1763 married Aquila Smith
Thomas Gray b.cir 1764 married Susannah Faben
George Gray b.1767 Ashwell Hrts
William Gray b.cir 1775 married Retty/Mretta Smith
Ossory Gray b.1777 Horningsea Cam married Ann (Hannah) Riches and later Lydia Overton nee Coe.
Robert Gray b.cir 1779 married Mary Leighton and had known gypsy children
and James b.cir 1780ish who married Sophia Sly.
Now Robert Gray and Mary Leighton had the following that I know of:
Robert c.04.12.1799 Isleham, married Sarah Harris,
Mary c.03.08.1800 Isleham,
Henry c.05.08.1806 Isleham.
Robert Jnr and Sarah Harris had:
Urania c.09.12.1827 Little Yeldham Ex
William b.1839 c.01.05.1842 Stoke Ferry Nfk married Sylvester Gray b.cir 1851 Burwell Cam
Margaret c.14.05.1844 Stoke Ferry Nfk
Henry c.14.02.1850 East Winch married 1) Sarah and 2) Lavinia Waterfield
Ellen b.cir 1847 Harpley Nfk
Hope that helps?
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Grayaust
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Firstly, thanks very much for the quick reply and the additional information. It is very interesting and most helpful.
As I mentioned, I am pretty sure I descend from Henry Gray (son of Robert Gray and Mary Leighton). Henry married a Mary King and seems to have settled in Mildenhall Suffolk - children of Henry and Mary were christened at the Mildenhall Wesleyan Chapel. It would seem that Mary dies in 1845 and Henry and his children emigrated to South Australia. By any chance can you provide me with the source of info for linking Robert Gray/Mary Leighton as being the parents of Henry Gray?
It also seems that Robert and Mary had another child (William) c 1813. He married an Ann King and he (and his wife and children) emigrated to New South Wales (via Tasmania) in 1858.
At this stage, I have no idea of the other 2 children of Robert and Mary that you have mentioned (Robert and Mary).
Whilst tracking Grays in Mildenhall I have come across a death certificate for Charles Gray - a Tinker - (12 Sept 1847) age 84 years - which gives a YOB cir 1863 - is this possibly the Charles Gray you refer to?
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An65
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Posts: 320
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Robert Gray and Mary had a son Henry bapt at Isleham Cam 05 08-1804 Isleham Cam according to IGI ref www.familysearch.org.
I received the original date as given above from another researcher, apparently a wrong date, apologies for that error" I hate errors for obvious reasons.
I assume without proof that this is Robt and Mary Leighton.
You are looking for similar, and it is reasonable. Certainly Robt Jnr and Sarah Harris had the William who married Silvester Gray, as they are apparent on the cenus. Silvester GRAY was almost certainly a relative, as is often expected of Romany ancesters, being the daughter of dinah Gray and Big Jim Shaw.
She was bapt 1819 at Wickham, Ex, and was known as shaw aka thorpe.
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An65
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 320
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Whilst tracking Grays in Mildenhall I have come across a death certificate for Charles Gray - a Tinker - (12 Sept 1847) age 84 years - which gives a YOB cir 1863 - is this possibly the Charles Gray you refer to?
yes
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Grayaust
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Posts: 7
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Dear An65
I owe you a response to mail and have not forgotten. Quite a bit on right now (changing jobs, house, location) but will reply in due course - once I get things off pieces of paper and onto computer.
Regards
Grayaust
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Nightmare
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Hi An65,
I am a descendent of Robert & Mary (nee Leighton) Gray.
Regarding; Silvester GRAY was almost certainly a relative, as is often expected of Romany ancesters, being the daughter of dinah Gray and Big Jim Shaw. She was bapt 1819 at Wickham, Ex, and was known as shaw aka thorpe.
My research is that the above Sylvester (Thorpe/Shaw/Gray) married Stephen Loveridge, b. 1820 Yowcester, Nothamptonshire, England. This Sylvester being a grandaughter of both Moses & Susannah Shaw as well as, Foundness & Mary Gray. Note Stephen & Sylvester are only around one year apart in birthdates.
I have as the Sylvester (Thorpe) Gray who married William Gray, son of Robert & Sarah (nee Harris) Gray, as being born around 1851 Burwell, Cambridge.
William Gray being born around 1839 Stoke, Ferry, is 20 years older than the Sylvester Thorpe/Shaw/Gray, bapt 1819 at Wickham, Exeter but, he is only around 12 years older than the 1851 Burwell, Cambridge, Sylvester Shaw. The male being 20 years younger than the female sounds a tad unusual even for a gypsy family where as the male being 12 years older than his female partner is more the norm?
I have seen other genealogy research stating what you have, perhaps I may be wrong ? I haven't for some reason got any parents for the Sylvester born 1851 Burwell, Cambridge, so I best look into that.
This same Gray family also had a tendency which is quite well researched to use the surnames of Gray, Thorpe, Shaw, Mobbs, & others regardless of their fathers surname of Gray. Sometimes they alternated throughout their lives just to make it harder & more confusing for us present days researchers & descendents.
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lavina
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi to all Gray researchers,
My paternal g grandparents John Taylor and Sophia Harris (mainly in Norfolk/Suffolk) had 12 children. Their last child, my grandfather, a son called Alger, b 1882 Thetford, she called herself GRAY.
Alger married Beatirce Wilson in 1902 in Bury St Edmonds. Her parents were Mark Wilson and Eliza Thopre, who married at the Parish Church, Eriswell, Mildenhall ,December 1867. They were aged 21 & 18.
The witnesses were William Gray and Sylvester Gray.
I wonder if they connect with any of your ancestors.
Lavina
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Taylor Wilson Horn Gaskin Lamb. East Anglia.
Bowman Wilsdon Alexander McDonald Lancs Yorks Cumberland
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Nightmare
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Lavina,
Yes, I'm sure there are several relationships to my family of Grays &, I would from what I know already of these families, there will be many more as the family history is unravelled further.
From my data base the following:
William Gray b. Circa 1839 Stoke, Ferry, married Sylvester (Thorp) Gray b. 1851 Burwell, Cambridge.
William was the son of Robert Gray & Sarah Harris.
Robert Gray was one of the sons of my ancestor Robert Gray b. 1775 Cambridgeshire & his wife, Mary Leighton b. 1777 in Isleham, Cambridge.
I am a descendent of another son Robert & Mary named William Gray b. 1812, Dunnagon, Cambridgeshire & his wife Ann King b. 1815, West Row, Suffolk.
It seems that some of my Gray family relocated yo Mildenhall, Suffolk somewhere between 1815 & 1830 or there abouts.
I haven't any parents Williams wife Sylvester Thorpe/Gray as yet or for the parents of William Grays mother Sarah Harris. Interestingly though I have a daughter named Beatrice Gray born 1869, location unknown to William & Sylvester Gray.
In my data I have a Mark Wilson & Eliza Thorpe who had a son named Hiram Wilson. Is this your Mark Wilson & Eliza Thorpe ?From my data Hiram Wilson married Euphemia Harris who was the daughter of John Harris & Abigail Gray. I don't have any dates or other information regarding these people as yet.
I'm very curious & interested to hear your reply.
Regards
Nightmare
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Nightmare
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Hi Lavina,
I also forgot to ask is your Eliza Thorpe descended from James Thorpe & Elizabeth Buttress\Buttriss by chance ?
If so she (& yourself) would also be related yet again to the same Gray family by being a descendent of Founness\Foundness\Fowk Gray through his daughter also named Silva\Sylvester Gray b. Circa 1793.
This Sylvester married Stephen (James ?) Thorpe father of James Thorpe who married Elizabeth Buttress\Buttriss.
At one stage I did believe Founness\Foundness etc.. Gray to be a brother of my ancestor Robert Gray b. 1775 Cambridge. But if this Founnes etc.. Gray died in 1828 aged 91 years of age as some researchers have him, this would mean he was being born around 1737 around 40 years before my Robert being born in 1775. It seems a pretty long stretch to me. On that information he is more likely to be in the preceeding generation to Robert Gray 1775 & his siblings.
I'm not pretending to be a Gray genealogy expert at all & I have so much to find, clarify & learn about my relatives but, I feel there is a lot incorrect stuff out there at present owing to the confusion of people with the same names such as the various Sylvester Grays\Thorpe, Foundness\Founess Grays, James (Stephen) Thorpes\Gray etc... & that doesn't exempt my research & the conclusions I have come to in my data. It's a genealogy minefield but, I am enjoying the challenge.
Regards
Nightmare
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Nightmare
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Hi Lavina,
Thanks for the PM.
I forgot to mention also that I have in my data a Mark Wilson who married Sarah King, 19 December 1802 in Lowerstoft, Suffolk. Could this be a coincidence or is this Mark Wilson the possible grandfather of your Mark Wilson who married Eliza Thorpe in Midlenhall, Suffolk ?
Again someone from the King family is involved as well but, they are all proving elusive to link together so far.
Regards
Nightmare
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lavina
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Hi Nightmare,
Yes, Eliza Thorpe descended from James Thorpe & Elizabeth Buttress. I found the baptism of Eliza 14 January 1849 at Foxton, Cambridgeshire with her sister Lucy, aka Holland.
Hiram Wilson, Mark & Eliza's son is buried at Hopton, Suffolk,in the same cemetary as three generations of my Taylor family.
Euphemia, Fammy as she was known, is buried at West Row, near Mildenhall.
We always new there was a connection the the Gray, but didn't know which line to start with.
I'll be back after I've looked through some more notes.
Regards
Lavina
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Taylor Wilson Horn Gaskin Lamb. East Anglia.
Bowman Wilsdon Alexander McDonald Lancs Yorks Cumberland
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Cuxwold
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Hi Nightmare,
My 2 x grt grandfather was James Thorpe bn c 1818.
My grt grandfather was Edmund bn c 1831, James's eldest son.
Some info on data I have re Mark & Eliza Wilson,
Ihave them having 11 children.
Hiram and Euphemia Wilson , I have them with 4 children
Kathleen bn 1910,
Rodney bn 1912,
Mark bn 1914,
Lazurus bn 1917.
Hiram also had a brother called Lazurus bn 1887.
Euphemia had a brother called Rodney bn 1891
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