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Topic: Can Anyone Help Me Interpret This Marriage Record? (Read 907 times)
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Suffolk: Sudbury - Marriage Licences, 1782-1814
12.The Hearth Tax. Charles 2nd.
Allegations for Marriage Licences in the Archdeaconry of Sudbury, Suffolk.
Book 28. 1792-1793.
County: Suffolk
Country: England
Chas. Guest, of Bury St. Edmunds, s. m., & Ann Cansdale, of Gt. Whelnetham, s. w., at same. Bn.: Ralph Guest, of same. 15 Aug 1792.
I would guess s.m. and s.w. stand for single man and single woman.
But what's "Bn."? Does it give me a clue as to who Ralph Guest is in relation to the groom?
Thanks very much
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 21 March 07 15:30 UTC (UK) by Rick »
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5105
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Bn. is likely to denote "bondsman", usually a close relative or friend who guaranteed, together with the groom, that there was no impediment to the marriage. In my family the bondsman has usually been the father of one of the parties to the marriage.
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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suffolk*sue
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5092
Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.
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From Boyds marriages
Ralf GUEST
Sara PRICK
1769 - Bury St. Edmunds
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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Hi Aulus,
Do you have the following from the IGI?
Marriage of Ralph GUEST and Sarah PRICK, 26 Jan 1769, Suffolk and the following children to them (unfortunately not Charles) - St James, Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk:
* Frances GUEST, b 23 May 1774, bap 17 Apr 1775
* John GUEST, b 6 Apr, bap 26 Dec 1776
IGI also has the following:
Ann CANSDEL, bap 9 Apr 1769, Bures-St Mary, Suffolk, parents Henry CANSDEL & Sarah
And two children to Charles GUEST & Ann CANSDALE:
Elizabeth Ann GUEST, b 10 May 1802, bap 8 Jan 1810, Clare Suffolk
Julia GUEST, b 23 Jun 1805, bap 8 Jan 1810, Clare Suffolk
JAP
PS: A search of A2A ( http://www.a2a.org.uk/ ) for Charles Guest brings up some hits; also one for Charles Gues.
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suffolk*sue
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5092
Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.
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From the National Burial INdex
Ralph GUEST buried 17th June, 1830, aged 87yrs - Bury St. Edmunds, St. Mary
Sarah GUEST buried 22nd November,1789, aged 41yrs at B.S.E. St. Mary
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Thanks everyone - that is so helpful.
I'd got a little further with Ann Cansdale thanks to suffolk-sue's help in an earlier thread but hadn't got round to searching further for Ralph Guest yet!
Thanks for the pointer to A2A, JAP. I hadn't come across that at all previously. There's some nice juicy stuff there, including bankruptcy and a bastard child and an affiliation order. I can see I'm going to have to run all of my lot through A2A to see what else turns up!
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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Hi Aulus,
And there I was ever so delicately not mentioning what the A2A hits were about 
JAP
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Just to say thanks again for the A2A reference. Those nice people at Bury St Edmunds Records Office sent me copies of all the documents, which date from the period 1811 - 1833
It seems Charles GUEST (1770-1855) was once an overseer for the Parish of Fornham St Martin, but ended up owing them money (it's not entirely sure for what, but is likely to be for maintenance of a bastard child he had with an Ann Bridges) and most of the correspondence is him avoiding paying his debts - it's quite entertaining watching him employing delaying tactics, trying to squirm his way out and playing the current parish officials off against each other.
Things didn't work out though (he seems to have opened a school at Ixworth and lost money on it - one letter refers to an "opposition" opening and undercutting his fees!) and on one letter from Charles Guest to Fornham St Martin parish he gives his address as 9 Fleet Market, London - i.e. the debtors prison, Fleet Prison. He seems to have come to an arrangement with his debtors to pay them 3s 4d in the pound and avoided bankruptcy - he says his total debts amounted to nearly £1200, which seems to me a huge sum for 1830. The rest of the correspondence with the parish is his excuses as to why he's not yet paid the 3s 4d in the pound (which amounted to £2 10s 0d)!
The Bankruptcy Petition of June 1830 (which he seems to have escaped from) gives Charles' full career and residence to date: "Charles Guest, formerly of Fornham St Martin and afterwards of Ixworth both near Bury St Edmunds Suffolk, Schoolmaster and Land Surveyor and Adjutant of Militia on reduced pay and Quarter Master of the late Pembroke Fencible Cavalry on half pay and late of Bentinck Street, Berwick Street, Soho, Middlesex, adjutant and quartermaster as aforesaid but carrying on no business, a Prisoner in the Fleet Prison."
Other names mentioned in the correspondence, in case anyone has an interest in these people or can shed further light, are:
Mr HOGG(Fornham St Martin parish)
Mr CASE - seems to be some sort agent (solicitor?) for Charles Guest in Ixworth
Mr William HARVEY (Fornham St Martin parish)
Mr MASKETT (Fornham St Martin parish)
Mrs BRIDGEMAN (with whom a friend left £5 4s when Mr Maskett could not be found at the Bell (??) )
Mr LEMON (taking another £5 4s a month later (Apr 29 1828) from Charles Guest in Ixworth to presumably Mr Maskett in Fornham St Martin. This one interests me, as one of Charles' grandchildren is called Charles Lemon Guest, which I'd taken to be a mistranscription of Charles Simon Guest)
Anne BRIDGES - mother of Charles Guest's bastard child in Fornham St Martin
K.I. HAGGERTON (overseer of the Parish of Fornham St Martin, 1832)
Mr ARCHER, 1 Featherstone Buildings, Holborn (who is looking after Charles' "affairs")
Robert MAZE - taking Charles Guest to court in 1824 for "insufficient allowance when disabled from work by rupture"
Mr CREAD - the same note from the magistrates as mentions the complaint of Robt Maze, also instructs Charles Guest to "bring Mr Cread's Certificate" - whatever that might mean!
Frances BARTHROP - mother of Charles Guest's bastard daughter in Clare
Barrington Bloomfield SYER and Robert Cary BARNARD - JPs who made the bastardy order in Clare regarding Frances Barthrop's daughter.
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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Hello Aulus,
You do seem to have been having fun! Thank you very much for letting us all know what you found.
JAP
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suffolk*sue
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5092
Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.
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Yes, thanks for sharing that with us, he sounded quite a character. 
P.S.
Gt. Aunt Florence looks like a lady with attitude
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suffolkmawther
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1339
'Jumper' & Eliza Fulker
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Just to say that this Ann Bridges is not one of ours -
we are good gels Sir! 
SM ...
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Every time I find an ancestor, I have to find two more !
SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally from Framlingham/Parham Suffolk)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert and Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith/Barnes LND - Fulker
LONDON/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
Gt-Grandfather Michael Wilson was born in Cork, lived in Fulham London - arrived Boston USA 1889 alone - what happened next?
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MJP
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1107
Great-grandfather Private Arthur Henry Prior
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Hi Aulus,
Some of Charles' military appointments are recorded in the London Gazette. I just did a search on Charles Guest between 1800 and 1840 and got 5 hits. Although there seems to have been a Charles Guest in Brosely, Shropshire around the same time, so some of the articles are about him...
http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveSearch.asp?WebType=0&Referer=full
MJP
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Information given in census transcriptions is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.ukEagle (Yorkshire), Prior (Berkshire), Buckland (Nottinghamshire), Short (Devon), Sinclair (Caithness, Scotland), Patterson (Co. Tyrone, Ireland) |
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Thanks for that MJP.
I thought I'd looked in the London Gazette, but that must either have been for someone else or I didn't use the search engine properly.
Adds a few more details into the scoundrel's life!
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Aulus
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 988
The black sheep: Florence Stevenson née Hampson
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Attitude and mystery ...
The family story was that "we don't talk about her". She is supposed to have gone to London and there is a suggestion she may have been an actress.
The photograph confirms that she went to London, as it was taken at the studios of Henry Van der Weyde, 182 Regent Street. Curiously somebody at some point decided to try to scratch out the photographer's name and address on the mount - very odd. From the details of the photographer, we can date the photograph to between September 1877 and 1902. (Van der Weyde's studio was the first to be fitted with electric light for photography.)
She's on my dad's side, so probably originally from Lancashire, and likely a Stevenson or a Smith (but could be an in-law), but so far I've not been able to find an appropriate Florence.
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Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens Marylebone & Sussex: Cole London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman Bowland: Marsden, Noble Shropshire: Guest Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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