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Topic: Escape and Evasion reports (Read 4404 times)
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annsa
RootsChat Member
Posts: 173
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi,
This list may be of use to some people whose relatives either escaped or evaded during WW2. Posted by another researcher that uses an air force research site that I use. Hopefully some other researchers may add additional information. Some of the WO208 files are available on documents online, but there isn't an index for some and it appears to me to be a bit hit and miss as to whether you get the one you are looking for!
Anyway, hopefully some of this information will be helpful, this is on Steve Brew's 41 Squadron site:
'During a recent visit to the National Archives at Kew, I tried to locate reports made by 41 Squadron pilots who evaded or escaped during WWII. The information desk at the NA do not hold a master index, so I photographed the personal name indexes in the front of the files I ordered, namely WO208/3314 (1943), WO208/3316 (1943), WO208/3317 (1943-1944), WO208/3326 (1945) and WO208/3327 (1945). I thought they may interest others so posted them on the internet at:
http://brew.clients.ch/Index%20WO208.htm
I have also included on this page the top level index shown in the NA catalogue, for quick reference to the Escape/Evasion Reports: Code MI9/SPG: 1-3122, held in WO208/3298-3327.'
I have a partial index to some of the later WO208 files (the liberation reports). These are NOT indexed at all and I also have some further information in my files from another researcher. However, I am afraid that I only have air force names and not army or navy. Steve Brew's index on his site includes army etc as the index is from the front of the files held at the NA.
Regards,
Ann Sadler
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annsa
RootsChat Member
Posts: 173
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Thudders,
Hopefully the information will help some people. A few of us have been trying to build up an index to some of the WO E&E files and the liberation reports as it can save a load of time at the NA. The next time I go I will work through the Lib reportsmore fully and try to make amore complete index.
Regards,
Ann
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ADM199
RootsChat Member
Posts: 115
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi, This list may be of use to some people whose relatives either escaped or evaded during WW2. Posted by another researcher that uses an air force research site that I use. Hopefully some other researchers may add additional information. Some of the WO208 files are available on documents online, but there isn't an index for some and it appears to me to be a bit hit and miss as to whether you get the one you are looking for! Anyway, hopefully some of this information will be helpful, this is on Steve Brew's 41 Squadron site: 'During a recent visit to the National Archives at Kew, I tried to locate reports made by 41 Squadron pilots who evaded or escaped during WWII. The information desk at the NA do not hold a master index, so I photographed the personal name indexes in the front of the files I ordered, namely WO208/3314 (1943), WO208/3316 (1943), WO208/3317 (1943-1944), WO208/3326 (1945) and WO208/3327 (1945). I thought they may interest others so posted them on the internet at: http://brew.clients.ch/Index%20WO208.htmI have also included on this page the top level index shown in the NA catalogue, for quick reference to the Escape/Evasion Reports: Code MI9/SPG: 1-3122, held in WO208/3298-3327.' I have a partial index to some of the later WO208 files (the liberation reports). These are NOT indexed at all and I also have some further information in my files from another researcher. However, I am afraid that I only have air force names and not army or navy. Steve Brew's index on his site includes army etc as the index is from the front of the files held at the NA. Regards, Ann Sadler
Hi Ann,
my ongoing project is to catalogue all the E & E Reports in T.N.A. Up to now I have done all the E & E 1940 - 1945.Escapers through the lines Italy. A couple of years ago appendix "C" to the 30 earlier E & E files were released,these I also catalogued. The Liberation Reports in WO208 are the early ones which for the most part were closed. All these are now open in WO344. I did catalogue the 1900 or so Liberation Reports in WO208 though.At present I am working on the Files for Switzerland.
Brian
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 05 June 07 18:21 UTC (UK) by Berlin-Bob »
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Prisoners of War. North Africa,Italy and Germany
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annsa
RootsChat Member
Posts: 173
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Brian,
Once you have catalogued all the files are you going to make an online index? If it is helpful I can pass you on the info I have. I had on a pretty loose basis, got together with a couple of other researchers, one of whom was going through and photographing all the E&E reports, however, unfortunately he became ill with cancer and subsequently died. I don't know what became of all his photos and information although I may be able to trace his widow (unfortunately I had a computer crash and lost e mail addresses). Derek was hoping to make a free searchable online database of the E&E reports. One of the big problems when you get to the NA is the fact that there is not even a card index to the Liberation reports, so you just have to plough through the files and hope that you find the right one.
Anyway, if I can be of help, please let me know. Unfortunately I don't get to Kew on a regular basis, but I must try to get up there in the near future and look at the Lib reports again (I have 3 smallish children and only manage to tunnel out occasionally!)
Best wishes Ann
ps It might be worth contacting Steve Brew as well as other researchers may have sent or have promised to send additional info.
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annsa
RootsChat Member
Posts: 173
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Brian,
I do know that the NA would be very interested in such a catalogue as I did talk with them about one a few years ago. The card indices are quite old and there are gaps especially as some 'researchers' have seen fit to nick stuff in the past!
Perhaps you might think about putting it online as well? I don't know how your information is stored, but I'm sure that there is some computer buff out there who would be willing to advise/help.
As for the WO344 series, I will trudge through some more next time I go to Kew. A french researcher has been doing the same and he has sent me an excel spreadsheet with air force ones. I shall do all the names next time, not just air force related ones. When you say that it is catalogued alphabetically, do you mean that there is some sort of index at the NA? If so is it in the card files somewhere or do you mean that you just get the first and the last name in that file. I couldn't see that there was any order in which the reports were filed but perhaps I and others have boobed somewhere along the line!
On the subject of the North African Campaign, my next door neighbour who is 94 is a veteran of that campaign, has absolutely all his marbles, but suffers from wounds he recived to his legs when blown up in an amoured car (I think that's right, although it may have been a tank). I keep meaning to go and have a long chat with him, when the kids aren't around and see if he has any recollections that would be of use to the Wartime Memories Project.
Anyway, if I can be of any help to you at anytime, please let me know. If you send me a personal message, I am happy to exchange e mail addresses.
All the best,
Ann
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ADM199
RootsChat Member
Posts: 115
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Ann,
over the last year I have photographed the first pages of reports and retyped them to create a catalogue by name, rank, and unit. At present Counting the Liberation reports I have completed 81 Files. This has entailed taking thousands of photographs, and typing thousands of names.With the Swiss files I have been able to record date of capture and date of arrival in Switzerland.
T.N.A. online catalogue for WO344 will tell you which file to read, but only gives the first and last names within that Particular file. This tells you where the Report you are looking for Should be,but this is not always to so. The problem comes when like myself you have a journey of over 150mls that proves to have been a waste of time.
I returned home yesterday after a two day session at T.N.A. using the cheap rates Travelodge have been offering, but with Summer upon us that will end for a few months.
When the project is complete I will have to Index all the abbreviations. Then I will decide what access methods to arrange.
My North African research just need tidying up and putting together in sequence, which itself will be quite a task as it has been ongoing for 15yrs.
Best Wishes
Brian
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Prisoners of War. North Africa,Italy and Germany
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annsa
RootsChat Member
Posts: 173
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Brian,
I don't have such a long journey, about a couple of hours if the traffic is good. I invariably have a long list from some overseas researchers friends but am always happy to help if I can. I normally go down the digital photography route as I can photograph and then look at my leisure later (providing I don't rush too much and end up with some blurred images as last time). I know a couple of air force researchers that have a lot of E&E reports, would any of those would be of any good to you? Is your information in some sort of searchable database at present?
It seems to me, that if everyone tried to pool their info, that it would be of a great deal of use to many researchers as well as relatives of servicemen.
Do you have the refs of the files that you have completed?
I stayed up at Kew last year for a couple of days after having some radiation treatment for an overactive thyroid gland. Unfortunately, I didn't know that you could get cheap rates at the Travelodge and I ended up in a really grotty B&B, plus I had the added bonus of there being a fire drill at the NA and so I lost about an hours research on that day.
All the best,
Ann
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Berlin-Bob
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5696
by: My Daughter. Chatting to find her Roots !
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Hi Ann, Hi Brian,
just a few technical thoughts:
if you are going to work together on this, or pool data, then why not talk about a suitable format first, so it's easy to exchange. (If the TNA is the 'recipient', then maybe you should be discussing it with them first).
If not the TNA, then my suggestion would be an excel file. This has the advantage, that it is easily converted to CSV (comma-separated) files, and makes another possibility feasible:
how about putting your findings on a RootsChat website ??
I could write a program for you to add CSV files to a database (similar to the 1901 Leftovers site, http://1901census.rootschat.com/ ) and to display them, and then all you have to do is upload the CSV files, and add them to the data base, any time you have a fresh batch ready.
Happy to help,
Bob
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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ADM199
RootsChat Member
Posts: 115
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Bob,
many thanks for the technical info and other suggestions,but the whole issue will be complete quite soon. I have been working on the project for about a year now. Another 1,000 frames on my hard drive to type up and one more visit to T.N.A. should about finish the job. I will discuss possibilities at T.N.A. when the job is complete.Perhaps the format could be converted after completion,if need be. There will perhaps be Copyright issues to discuss also. Hopefully a paper copy will be in the Research Enquiries Room. Over 10yrs ago I recognised the need for such information,but hadn't had the time to take it on until recently. I will have to give a lot of serious thought soon to where else to place the work.
Ann,
Sorry to hear about your medical reasons for being in the area. During the period classed as High season the Travelodge offers are not so good, but at other times you can get a night for as little as £15 if you book well in advance. This week I managed one night at £15 by staying on the M4 Eastbound.The other night cost me £26 by staying on the M4 Westbound. On the 18th I will be stopping at Kew Bridge for one night,cost is £26 . These bookings were made some weeks ago. From the look of the Web site the offers for the next few months will not be so generous.
At present I have up to WO208/4269 of the Swiss Reports in the bag so to speak,so there are only 7 more Files to copy. All those from WO208/4238 in this group are complete. As I said in another message there are none of the other Reports left to work on as they have all been done now.
Some of the earlier work on the E & E Files is in the I.W.M. at Duxford along with some of my research on the N/African Campaign. There are also copies in Australia and New Zealand,with my research contacts.
Best Wishes to you both
Brian
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Prisoners of War. North Africa,Italy and Germany
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annsa
RootsChat Member
Posts: 173
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Brian,
Somewhere like Rotschat would probably be a good place to put the information. I don't know whether the NA will have any copyright issues, I know that when I talked to them about going through the E&Es and making an index they were very interested, evidently something that they have wanted to do but had been unable to find the manpower to do it. It will be an invaluable resource for a lot of people but in order to it to be really useful it needs to be online in some form as there are many overseas researchers that are trying to get information. One of the original reasons that I started to look at the E&E reports was because I had been contacted a few times, by relatives of escapers/evaders who , in the case of some, had helped many allied servicemen. I was hoping if the files could be looked at an indexed, then we would be able to cross reference that info with the names of helpers. Of course, as you know, not all the reports are complete and so you don't always find the appendix with the information on helpers etc. For those that have never looked at them, they do have a lot of information in them and some can even bring a smile to your face. Although not in the E&Es, but in the Liberation files I found one for a Lt Szegda who was involved in the battle for Arnhem here below the first bit of the report which made me chuckle:
'MAPS USED: HOLLAND 1:100,000. S. HERTOGENBOSCH. Sheet 5.
17 Sep 44 - Our Horon No.478 landed about 1400 hrs. at approx. [Map Reference] 227385 East of UDENHOUT. With us was S/Sgt W. CRAM 3656512 G.P.R. [Glider Pilot Regiment] R.A.F. Station: KEEVIL, WILTS. Private Address: 41 BROUGHTON ROAD, SULFORD, LANCS. There was also Sgt J. WHITEHEAD 3528646 G.P.R. R.A.F. KEEVIL.
Landing - We landed near UDENHOUT, because the pilot had lost sight of the tug in cloud, and had cast off.
Move off towards GRAVE - The six of us moved off in two Jeeps to get to GRAVE 6253 to join up with some U.S.A. Airborne, whose objective was to take the town.
Shoot at Germans - On the way we passed many Germans, quite a number of which we shot from the Jeep. As we proceeded the enemy became more numerous and our ammunition would have given out, if we had fought a pitched battle. So I decided to turn off in the direction of BEST 3726.
S/Sgt CRAM PW [Prisoner of War] - While we were going round a corner in the village of ESCH 3137 at about 35 m.p.h. Sgt. WHITEHEAD shouted to me to stop, but as he had a strong LANCASHIRE accent, I could not understand what he intended to convey. We were in the second Jeep as LUITWIELER being a Dutchman had been in charge of the leading Jeep, so that he could ask civilians for any information. What Sgt. WHITEHEAD actually said was "My mate has fallen out of the Jeep". i.e. the one we were in, but as I could not understand clearly what he said I ordered the driver to carry on. It is presumed that S/Sgt CRAM is PW. The Dutch later confirmed this.'
Poor old Cram!!! What I want to know is what Cram had to say in his PoW report. I do hope that all the bits are there and am intending to look for it next time I go to the NA. If anyone has it or is related to Cram I would love to know what he thought.
All the best,
Ann
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annsa
RootsChat Member
Posts: 173
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Brian,
I like that story. I bet the debriefers had a chuckle about it too. Some ofthe comments made about the escape equipment that some of the aircrew were issued with makes good reading as well.
Anyway, I have just had my newsletter from the NA which says:
News
Find the hero in your family tree
You can now search and download recommendations for honours and awards to British army and Dominions personnel.
Flight Lieutenant Oliver Philpot's famous 'Wooden Horse' escape, immortalised in the film of the same name, is just one of the fascinating stories.
Often when these first come out they are free to download, so I'm off to look!!
All the best,
Ann
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