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Topic: Trying to find a missing PFAU ... (Read 1953 times)
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Mickledore
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Posts: 18
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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This is slightly unreal ...
I'd say the odds against it NOT being the same Annie Chandler are so remote as to be non-existent.
Great Aunt Butt has to be the clincher ... Mum always wondered who she was, but her own mother very seldom discussed the family. Up until very recently, when I started rooting around a bit, she had only the haziest idea of her antecedents.
Annie's marriage to a German didn't go down very well with the family - that much we do know ... and of course, later on my grandmother's German blood became a positive handicap for her and was seldom if ever mentioned.
So ... if we share a great-great-Grandmother, that would make us second cousins. Is that right? And you're a first cousin once removed to my mum?
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wdurham
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Not sure what actual relation we are to each other - I will have to let my family tree program work it out for me!
If our grandmothers were sisters, I think we would be second cousins. As it is our great-grannies who were sisters, I think the relationship is a bit more remote.
Just checked - we are third cousins. 
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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Mickledore
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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So ... you're my Mum's second cousin once removed?
And your Mum and my Mum are second cousins?
She's been talking about Lou ... and she sounds like a real character, not much approved of. Her declared aim was apparently to spend all her money and then, when it was all gone "draw her horns in". She was very glamorous - a wearer of "paint" and perfume.
Mum also understood that she was more or less swindled out of her money by relations, but she never knew precisely what had happened.
Annie Chandler's second husband was a coalman called Bill Law.
Her first was, of course, the mysterious and not-to-be-mentioned Charles Pfau, who vanishes witout trace ... possibly taking his first born son with him.
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Mickledore
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Meanwhile ... back with the Pfaus ... (  ) the marriage certificate has arrived.
Charles Bernhard Pfau married Annie Chandler on September the 22nd, 1884. Both were 21 years old.
Annie's father is given as George Chandler, Brickmaker.
Charles' father is given as Charles Frederick Pfau, also a Brickmaker.
The witnesses were William Williams and Sarah Ann Morgan.
AND ... the address of BOTH Charles and Annie at the date of the marriage is given as 53 Shaftesbury Street.
Is there some significance to the fact that they were both living at the same address when they married? Or the fact that the witnesses don't appear to be family members?
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Berlin-Bob
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by My Daughter. Chatting to find her Roots !
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Hi,
Is there some significance to the fact that they were both living at the same address when they married? Or the fact that the witnesses don't appear to be family members?
Forgive me for butting into a family affair (  ), but I also had this with my grandparents.
I didn't read any significance into it, other than that they moved in together before getting married.
My father was born a year before his parents got married. I haven't followed the whole story on this thread, but would that be a 'clue' for you, too ??
Although we are used to the idea of marriages being within the "bosom of the family", they weren't always.
For instance:
- Were the parents still alive,
- if so, did they live anywhere near the place where the marriage took place,
- were they possibily against the marriage
Just some general thoughts, (as I said, I haven't read all the thread), so please ignore, if you already know the answers.
Bob
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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Gillg
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Hi Mickledore
I have found several of my relatives' marriage records to show the same address for bride and groom, and have been told that this could be a money-saving device, though I'm not sure how or why. The article mentioned below suggests that being married by banns was the cheapest option, though it required a couple to live in the parish for three weeks while the banns were called. People were very inventive with their interpretation of this requirement and sometimes used an accommodation address of some kind!
Also, it's not uncommon for witnesses to be unrelated people, particularly those living in London and away from home and family at the time of their marriage. If you look through the pages of a parish record book, you can sometimes see the same name cropping up again and again as witness, and it could be the parish clerk or some official. (In more modern times some register office marriages were reputed to have cleaning ladies, etc. as witnesses.)
There's some interesting stuff on how to read a marriage certificate on
http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/guides/familyhistory/story/0,,2053717,00.html
which may answer some of your questions. Click on "Article continues..." or scroll down beyond the advert to get the full story. It also stresses the unreliability of marriage certificate information, which is a bit depressing for family history searchers!
Gill
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukFAIREY/FAIRY/FAREY, CHURCH from Easton, Ellington, Eynesbury, Gt Catworth, Huntingdon, Spaldwick, Hunts; Burnley, Lancs; New Zealand, Australia & US. HURST, BOLTON, BUTTERWORTH, ADAMSON, WILD from Milnrow, Newhey, Oldham & Rochdale, Lancs. |
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Mickledore
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you both very much ...
This is a steep learning curve ...
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Mickledore
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Just dropping back in with an update:
We've positively identified the "Brother who was never mentioned" (except once, by accident ... ) as Oliver Charles Bernhard Pfau.
He was born to Charles Bernhard Pfau and Annie Pfau (nee Chandler) on the 31st of October 1884. In other words, Annie was nearly 8 months gone when they married.
The other two children of the marriage followed in very quick succession ...
Sometime between 1887 and 1901 the marriage fractured, Annie moved to Bedford with Percy and Annie LG and Charles apparently ended up with Elizabeth Dwelly, widow, either as a lodger - or otherwise. Oliver stayed with his paternal grandmother in Islington.
The odd thing is, I can't find any trace of Charles and Annie Pfau and family in the 1891 Census ... or perhaps I'm being a bit thick?
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bedfordshire boy
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If you're thick you're in good company as none of us could find them in 1891, apart from Oliver Pfau. Charles, Annie and their two younger children seem to have dropped off the face of the earth
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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wdurham
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Hi, Moira -
I just had another look in 1891, using just the first names and birth years +/- 2 years to show up any possible mistranscriptions. Only Oliver at his granny's turns up.
Unless they were all using different surnames, none of which were Pfau, somehow they seem to have just avoided it!
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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bedfordshire boy
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If I had a forelock I'd touch it! Brilliant Tazzie
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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Mickledore
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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That's great detective work Tazzie!
Those are almost certainly two of the missing Pfaus.
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