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Topic: Help - I'm so confused! (Read 5826 times)
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
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Posts: 5079
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Jess,
A PS.
The only Arthur DURRANT I can find ca 1897 in the vicinity of Dulwich on FreeBMD is:
Arthur Brighton J DURRANT, September quarter, 1896, Croydon.
I gather that Dulwich should be in Camberwell registration district, but Croydon registration district would also be in reach of Dulwich.
Perhaps someone could look for this Arthur on the 1901?
JAP
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merc2081
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 523
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Start with the 1901 census
John Vincent, 26, .London, Peckham
Jane, 26, Laundress, Italy, Ascona
Arthur, 4, London Dulwich
John Smart, 38, visitor, Kempson, Beds
Ellen Smart, 19, visitor, Brackley, Northants
Ref: RG13/1425/95/32
: see below!!!
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Valda
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10255
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1901 census RG13 1425 folio 95
7 Cooper Street St Sepulchre Northamptonshire
John Vincent 26 Peckham, London, Head Married Private Soldier Infantry & Foot
Jane Vincent 26 Ancona, Italy Wife Married Laundress
Arthur Vincent 4 Dulwich, London, Son
John Smart 38 Kempston, Bedfordshire, Visitor Married
Marriages Mar 1900
Durrant Jane Northampton 3b 111
Vincent John Northampton 3b 111
Dulwich would register in Camberwell district.
Nearest I could find for a Durrant was
Births Sep 1898
Durrant Albert Arthur M Camberwell 1d 869
Nothing for Violet or Vincent.
Regards
Valda
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jesshugo
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Ok
1900 Marriage
6 March 1900 Northampton
John Vincent age 25
Bachelor Private 2nd Northamptoshire Reg living at Northants Barracks
father Arthur Vincent deceased baker
and
Jane Durrant age 25
Spinster Laundress living at 34 Denmark Rd Northampton
father Charles Durrant deceased labourer
witnessed by PJ and OS Pratt
1985 Marriage
10 Nov 1895 Islington
Arthur John Durrant age 21
Bachelor baker living 61 Havelock Sq
father Arthur Robert Durrant labourer
and
Jane Isabella Violet age 21
spinster - no prof - living at same address
father John Charles Violet deceased Interpreter
witnessed by Joseph Edward Edwards & Elizabeth Ann Edwards
1901 census
RG13 1425 Folio95 pg31
7 Cooper st St Sepulchre Northampton
John Vincent (Head) age 26 Infantry of Foot born Peckham london
Jane Vincent (Wife) age 26 Laundress born Ancona Italy british Subject
Arthur Vincent (son) age 4 born London dulwich
also John smart 38 visitor & Ellen Smart 19 visitor
Hope this is enough info
thanks for your help/interest
jess
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Vincent, Violet (Devon/Italy), Doling (Hampshire),
Powell (Hampshire/Surrey), Longhurst (Surrey), Freeman (Devon), Lamb (Devon/Kent), Durrant, Acquabona (Italy), Elson (Surrey), Hugo, Curtis, (Bristol/Isle of Man), Round (Bristol, Dudley, Hants Staffs) Budge (Cornwall) Thomason (Staffs ,Salop)
Hugoe (Cornwall,Devon,Lancs) Roach (Cornwall) Treneman (Cornwall) Pritchard (Staffs)
Griffiths (Bristol,London,Somerset)
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jesshugo
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Valda
Actually I might order the Albert - as her brother was an Albert its possible she could have named her 1st after him - I'd been concentrating on Arthurs and Johns only.
cheers
jess
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Vincent, Violet (Devon/Italy), Doling (Hampshire),
Powell (Hampshire/Surrey), Longhurst (Surrey), Freeman (Devon), Lamb (Devon/Kent), Durrant, Acquabona (Italy), Elson (Surrey), Hugo, Curtis, (Bristol/Isle of Man), Round (Bristol, Dudley, Hants Staffs) Budge (Cornwall) Thomason (Staffs ,Salop)
Hugoe (Cornwall,Devon,Lancs) Roach (Cornwall) Treneman (Cornwall) Pritchard (Staffs)
Griffiths (Bristol,London,Somerset)
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
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Posts: 5079
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Hi Valda,
Albert Arthur M sounds good!
I should have tried on FreeBMD:
Surname: Durrant
Given Name: +Arthur (the + searches for middle names)
County: Surrey
which would have brought up your Albert Arthur (the '+' sign being the important missing parameter in my search).
Instead I tried just, with above parameters (minus the +) given name Arthur and surname DURRANT ... (which found only Arthur Brighton M DURRANT in 1896).
Regards,
JAP
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merc2081
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 523
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Something a bit "odd" about the father in the marriages?
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 8060
St Chads, Kirkby
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Tazzie, I'm sorry for not transcribing the whole census, at that stage the entry for 1901 was still a guess as Jess hadn't confirmed Jane's married name.
Merc I too find it strange that the father is an Interpreter and then a Labourer on the second marriage. I could understand it if he was living for the first marriage and then changed his occupation afterwards.
Jess, trains of thought and names are often valid hunches but sometimes there's a glitch, I think I could knock a hole somewhere along the line between Freeman and Vincent but can't quite put my finger on where and even if I did it wouldn't be definite. Just take a deep breath and fingers crossed, you've now got a crowd all looking at this, maybe we'll find something between us before spending money, although that might be necessary anyway. We all do try other avenues before we are forced to lay out.
For the benefit of others and for continuity I'm going to give the 1891 census, as well as I'm able, some feint areas, as there are a lot of names which might be useful.
10 Looe Street, Charles, Plymouth, Devon
Susannah Freeman Head Wid 55 Lodging House Keeper Devon Plymouth
Rosetta [Rosella] Bar[c]kwell Daur M 25 Devon Plymouth
Rebecca P Johns Daur M 23 Devon Plymouth
Philip " Son in Law M age impossible to read Devon Plymouth
James Insledon Lodger Wid 40 General Labourer Devon Brownton
Ellen Perrie[n] Lodger M 30 Jersey
John " Lodger M 30 France
James Daw Lodger S 25 Coal Porter Devon Plymouth
John Stroud Lodger W 55 Coal Lumper Devon Plymouth
Vick Smith Lodger S 20 Coal Porter Jersey
Charles Damerell Lodger Wid 60 Marine Pensioner Devon Plymouth
Richard Blackmore Lodger S 30 General Labourer Devon Plymouth
John Davis Lodger S 25 Coal Porter Devon Plymouth
Harry Eather Lodger M 35 Door Sally Keeper ? Devon Plymouth
James Weston Lodger S 20 Drapers Porter Devon Barnstaple
Emanuel French Lodger M 30 Bargeman Devon Plymouth
Mary " Lodger M 35 Devon Plymouth
Jane Violiot Granddaur S 16 Italy British Subject
Alfred " Grandson 10 Scholar Devon Plymouth
RG12; Piece: 1729; Folio 30; Page 53
Does anybody know how to check details of how she became a British Subject? are there files kept?
Oh I forgot - Rebecca Freeman married Phillip John Pepperell June qtr 1890 Plymouth Devon 5b 496, so again another name seems to be changed unless the enumerator just wrote it wrongly.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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tazzie
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5168
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Hi all.....
Have been in & out on this so far today....
Susannah Freeman can be found in 1881 RG11/2190 F116 P21
Daughter Rosetta(19) is at home and a son Laurence(23). However Susan as she is in 1881 is shown as 54 years old. They are still at Looe st.
Tazzie
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Liscoe -all Green/Simpson/Underwood-Beds Walker/Foulkes/Fookes/Fooks/Hedges/Lamborne-Bucks. Stanton/Pattrick/Cooper/Fitzjohn/Holland/Spalding-London Rewallin/Underwood -Devon Casbolt-London/Cambridge Favell/Favel - Lincs-Beds This information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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jesshugo
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 95
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi everyone
I've looked into the Freemans back to 1841 - my only problem is trying to find a daughter that could be Violets wife! - I'm pretty sure she isn't going to be Janes biological mother but will be Alfreds.
Thanks ever so for all you looking into this
just to add to the confusion in 1881 census Charles Violet is a baker and confectioner not an interpreter or labourer!!!!
jess
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Vincent, Violet (Devon/Italy), Doling (Hampshire),
Powell (Hampshire/Surrey), Longhurst (Surrey), Freeman (Devon), Lamb (Devon/Kent), Durrant, Acquabona (Italy), Elson (Surrey), Hugo, Curtis, (Bristol/Isle of Man), Round (Bristol, Dudley, Hants Staffs) Budge (Cornwall) Thomason (Staffs ,Salop)
Hugoe (Cornwall,Devon,Lancs) Roach (Cornwall) Treneman (Cornwall) Pritchard (Staffs)
Griffiths (Bristol,London,Somerset)
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 8060
St Chads, Kirkby
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I was looking at the sisters in 1901 - believe me I haven't gone off on a tangent, I was looking for clues and with one sister I think I've found a nest or something!!
16 Corporation Dwellings, How Street, St Andrew Plymouth, Devon
Philip J Pepperell Head M 34 Coal Porter Plymouth, Devon
Rebecca Wife M 32 Plymouth, Devon
Clara daur 8 Plymouth, Devon
Lillian daur 3 Plymouth, Devon
RG13; Piece: 2101; Folio: 38; Page: 68
Rosetta Emily Freeman married William Barkell June qtr 1884 Plymouth Devon 5b 440
Rosetta Emily Barkell married - oh heck I'm lost, either Victor Bourgeois or John William R Goad June qtr 1896 Stoke Damerel, Devon 5b 750
There is a death for a Victor Bourgeouis September qtr 1896 Plymouth Devon 5b 147
There is a marriage for a Rosetta Bourgonies December qtr 1897 Plymouth Devon 5b 512 to either William Henry Arthur or Thomas Sparks.
All above possibles of course but I can't find what I'm looking for
1901
24 Gasking Street, Charles, Plymouth, Devon
William Roberts Head M 34 Coal Porter Plymouth Devon
Rosetta " Wife M 39 Plymouth Devon
Thomas Barkell Stepson S 15 Apprentice HM Dockyard to Fitting Torpedo Department Plymouth Devon
Rosetta Barkell Stepdau S 10 Scholar Plymouth Devon
Victor Barkell Stepson S 4 Plymouth Devon
Again a lot of boarders
Charles Brookes Boarder S 45 Coal Porter Plymouth Devon
Edward C Taylor " S 65 Lithographic Printer Essex Roydon
RG13; Piece: 2097; Folio: 45; Page: 19
The name Charles Brookes rings bells somewhere
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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merc2081
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 523
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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1881: Maybe somebody could tell me whether or not it is unusual to "tack-on" the grandchildren at the end of the list, after the lodgers et al!
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MaryA
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 8060
St Chads, Kirkby
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I think it would depend on the enumerator, often they go by age regardless, so it wouldn't be too unusual.
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukLunt (Wavertree/West Derby), Forshaw (West Derby), Richardson (Knowsley), Kent (Cheshire), Cain (Hertfordshire, London), Larkins (Bedfordshire, London), Nunn (London), Lenton, Hillyard (Bedfordshire), Parle, Lambert, Furlong, Wafer (Wexford) Special separate interest in Longford (Blackrock, Dublin) |
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3933
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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the question about her being a British subject - I think at that time a birth outside the UK to British parents would make the child British. There are records on Findmypast of the GRO Consular Birth Indices. I've had a look and I can't find Jane under Durrant or Violet, but there are some other Violet births around that time
1871-1875
Lawrence Harry Violet Ancona vol 5 pg 921
1866-1870
Emilia Artemesia Violet Ancona vol 4 pg 751
William Oscar Violet Ancona vol 4 pg 753
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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