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BROWN look up

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Topic: BROWN look up (Read 201 times)

ard
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BROWN look up
« on: Thursday 12 April 07 03:29 BST (UK) »

Eliza Brown was born around 1848 at Grays, Essex. (according to the 1871&1881 censuses) I'm not sure what place Grays would be included in for the free bmd records.
And according to her marriage info (in Burham, Kent to John Briggs), her father Thomas Brown was a moulder.

Can anyone find her with her family in 1851 and/or 1861?

Much thanks,
ard


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KNT:Foster;Piper;Wagon; Henry;Burville;Hobbs;Briggs;
ESX:Smith;Baker;Everitt;Willings;Spurgeon; Stack;Whelms?
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suffolk*sue
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Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.

Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 12 April 07 08:06 BST (UK) »

1851

BROWN
Thomas - 59 - labourer - born Hoo Kent
Mary - 39 - born Rochester Kent
Edmund - 14 - lab - born Upnor Kent
Frederick - 12 - lab - born Upnor
Eliza - 3 - born Grays

HO 107/1610 - Rochester Kent
Folio 206
Page 2
John Street


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suffolk*sue
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Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.

Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 12 April 07 08:22 BST (UK) »

1841

HO 107/461/2 - Northfleet, Kent
Folio 21, Page 37
Creek

BROWN
Thomas - 40 - brickmaker
Mary - 25
John - 15 - lab.
Ann - 15
Samuel - 10
Charles - 9
William - 6
Edmund - 4
Frederick - 2
Thomas BROWN - 50
Matthew CARTER - 15

it states all born out of county. Roll Eyes


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ard
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Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 12 April 07 15:43 BST (UK) »

Thanks once again for coming to my rescue Sue!
That certainly appears to be them! Now I have a little more to work with Cheesy

!
ard


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ard
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Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 12 April 07 16:50 BST (UK) »

I just noticed that these are all Kent. Is there a place called Grays in Kent then? Odd that Eliza would have been the only one born in Essex....

I'm also guessing that Mary is a second wife for Thomas given the ages of what appear to be the chidlren; Thomas is also quite a bit older than Mary.

Funny there being another Thomas Brown in the household who only seems to be 10 years or so older than Thomas age 40 - not enough difference for him to be a father. The 1841 census is quite frustrating in a way but alas, better than nothing!

The 1851 census has Thomas as close to 60, closer to the age of the last Thomas listed in the 1841 census. Does the 1851 census indicate their relationship? Perhaps the 1861 census would be best for that; should I inquire on the Kent page?


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suffolk*sue
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Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.

Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 12 April 07 17:21 BST (UK) »

Grays and Northfleet are on opposite sides of the Thames, if you have an atlas handy, you will see.

I am struggling to find them in 1861. I did find Frederick, but he is lodging elsewhere and his birthplace is given as Grays also.

Cry


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ard
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Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 12 April 07 20:49 BST (UK) »

hmmm THanks for your efforts, Sue. Where was Frederick in 1861?

This might be Samuel in 1881

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None of the others seem to have as likely of a candidate.


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suffolk*sue
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Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.

Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 12 April 07 21:06 BST (UK) »

1861

Frederick BROWN - 21 - brick field lab. - lodger - born Grays,Essex

in the household of a family called PACKMAN

RG9/484 - Burham, Kent
Folio 96
Page 6


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suffolk*sue
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Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.

Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 12 April 07 21:14 BST (UK) »

1861

BROWN
Charles - 32 - brickmaker - born Upnor
Jane - 38 - wife - born St. Lukes
Thomas - 30 - brother - brickmaker - born Upnor
Eliza - 22 - sis in law - born Birmingham
Eliza - 13 - sister - born Grays

plus six lodgers

RG9/1086 - South Shoebury, Essex
Folio 31
Page 18


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ard
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Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #9 on: Friday 13 April 07 00:39 BST (UK) »

Despite all the descrepencies, there are little hints that let me know that the elements are part of a same puzzle.

Burham is where , on July 5, 1868, Eliza married John Briggs (he's another who's history is a little difficult to get a handle on!)

Witnesses were Thomas Brown and Sarah Jane Edwards (don't know if she is a relative or not) It may be that Thomas also lived in Burham at the time; or perhaps he was deceased. THen again, they might be hiding in the 1861 census if there was an error in their surname or if it was poorly written??? The Eliza who married Briggs would have been about 13 in 1861.

As there is no Thomas child listed in the 1841 in the Brown family - it might be that he had a middle name and was known by either names.

The family obviously straddled the border between Essex and Kent quite a bit!
ard


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suffolk*sue
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Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.

Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #10 on: Friday 13 April 07 07:24 BST (UK) »

I have amended above 1861 census as when checking again I found I had missed Eliza aged 13yrs off, blame it on tired old eyes.

Roll Eyes


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suffolk*sue
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Catherine Sandys, I WILL find out where you went.

Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #11 on: Friday 13 April 07 07:38 BST (UK) »

1861

BRIGGS
John - 12 - born Chatham
George - 7 - born Chatham

RG9/483 - Chatham
Folio 144
Page 3
Medway Union Workhouse


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ard
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Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #12 on: Friday 13 April 07 07:44 BST (UK) »

Thank you. Yes, I found that out with a Kent look-up request I had posted about the Briggs.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,225965.0.html
This is another family that I can't quite figure out. It seems John (b C 1848) was the grandson of James and Ann, living with his (likely widowed) grandmother as a young boy and then later, as an inmate at the workhouse - never seeming to live with parents! (well, such is what the records at 10 year intervals reveal) I had also figured that it might be that Ann jr was his unwed mother, possibly also the mother of George (b 1853) and maybe Elizabeth (b 1843).

However, John's marriage record (to Eliza Brown) states that his father was John Briggs. It's all a bit confusing since the the son John that James and Ann seemed to have had, was only 11 or 12 years older than this John...

What were the lives around these little bits of data!?!


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Eyesee
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Rev Beaumaurice Stracey Clarke 1813-1897

Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 14 April 07 05:26 BST (UK) »

The reg dist of Orsett has Gray's Thurrock as part of it. Whether that is Grays that is referred to I am not sure. Someone else may be able to help on that.

There is an Eliza Brown birth registered at Orsett Sep qtr 1847, which may be her. The census in 1861 was 7 April, and for Eliza to be 13 then, she was born between 7 April 1847 and 7 April 1848. 1851 census was 30 March.

Ian C


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ard
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Re: BROWN look up
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 14 April 07 07:17 BST (UK) »

Thank you Ian,
In searching, I too found that Thurrock seemed to often be associated with Grays but haven't been sure if it is the same or if there was a separate town of Grays. I got the impression that Grays was very small.

I hadn't found the birth registration though -I think you have found a definate possibility, at any rate. Even more so since I just looked and found a fitting Frederick:
Births Mar 1839 BROWN Frederick Orsett 12 157

Does anyone know what district Upnor, Kent falls under?

Still confused about which Thomas is her father, whether Mary is her mother and if the other Brown children are half-siblings!

ard


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