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'Echunga' the mystery passenger?

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Topic: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger? (Read 475 times)

cvp
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'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« on: Friday 13 April 07 10:42 BST (UK) »

According to 'The Cyclopedia of New Zealand' pg.680 my grandfather (x3) Joseph Powell, arrived into Lyttleton on the 'Echunga' in 1862.

But I've scoured the passenger lists, crew lists and even purchased the book... 'The Echunga Diaries' and no-where does it mention a 22 year old Joseph Powell.

What I do know for relative certainty is:
He was born in 1840 and married in NZ in 1866 and died in 1917.

Did he stow-away? ... falsify his name/age? ...

there was a Powell family onboard who were rumoured to be relatives, but they weren't on speaking terms so rumour has it.
Any thoughts greatly appreciated...
thankyou
cvp


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Joseph Powell, Brains green, westbury on Severn

KiwiBrennan
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 13 April 07 23:46 BST (UK) »

Hi CVP

Sounds like you have covered all the bases, but can I ask, where did you check the passenger lists?
Was it at Archives or on the internet?

Archives Wellington and Ch'ch have copies.
It looks like it called at Timaru as well, so wondering IF it is possible that the Timaru passengers were listed on a separate page.......??
(just a thought, he may have originally been destined for Timaru...)

A couple of things, where was he born, what was his occupation, and who were his parents?

Bren


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cvp
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 14 April 07 01:32 BST (UK) »

Hi Bren
Initially I checked the internet, which I found about three different passenger lists, the book 'The Echunga Diaries' also confirms these names and additionally lists the Captain and crew with their service records.

I thought he may have worked his passge over and not have been listed but the book also mentions a young chap whom was emmigrating & worked his passage but he's listed amongst the crew.

We have written to the Museum in Timaru but they only refer to the James Powell and family, no Joseph.

Joseph Powell
We think his parents were James & Ann but recently had conflicting info they were Joseph & Sarah but currently checking that source.

1840 born in Gloucestershire
1862 emmigrated, worked as a farm labourer
1866 married at Burnham, South of Christchurch, NZ
1917 died Christchurch 1917.

The 'Echunga' apparently made a 2nd voyage to NZ but I haven't found any records of this.
It was wrecked at Napier in 1868


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Joseph Powell, Brains green, westbury on Severn

cvp
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 14 April 07 02:31 BST (UK) »

...I've just found in the book, that the 'Echunga's 2nd voyage arrived at 'Port Chalmers' on the 4th December 1865 and a third voyage also arriving at 'Port Chalmers' 14th October 1867.

As Joseph was married at Burnham in 1866, the 2nd voyage could be a possibility.

I guess the 'Otago Daily Times' would have printed a passengers list, if he departed in Dunedin, but the shiping lists I've seen online only refer to the 1862 voyage.


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Joseph Powell, Brains green, westbury on Severn

KiwiBrennan
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 14 April 07 03:08 BST (UK) »

Hi CVP

Just a thought, if you check out the intention to marry, it (hopefully) will give a better idea of when he arrived.
Do you have his marriage cert?
Did he happen to have a middle name?

Have you checked out the Otago Witness on Papers Past at the National Library?
(sorry I'm on dial-up and it's a bit slow)
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/

Bren.


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cvp
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 14 April 07 03:23 BST (UK) »

Hi Bren
I've a copy of the marriage cert, which says;
When married: 31st July 1866 at Burnham
Names & Surnames: Joseph Powell & Mary Crump
Profession: Farmer
When registered: 13th April 1866.

He dosn't appear to have a middle name.
Additionally, family members have a prayer book given to him from a Church in Blakeney, Gloucestershire where he taught Sunday School, it's dated 1861.
I could only guess they gave it to him when he left.
cheers
Craig


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Joseph Powell, Brains green, westbury on Severn

KiwiBrennan
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 14 April 07 03:29 BST (UK) »

Hi Craig

The ITM will state how long both parties have been in the district when they applied for the "licence" to marry.
This may or may not be the same as how long they have been in NZ.

Bren


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cvp
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 14 April 07 03:49 BST (UK) »

Bren
Should the ITM be part of the marriage cert. or a separate document?
Craig


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Joseph Powell, Brains green, westbury on Severn

KiwiBrennan
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 14 April 07 04:03 BST (UK) »

Hi Craig

It's a seperate document - like an application to marry.
They are at Archives in Wellington and not sure if in the other centres too.

It gives:
date of notice
Names of both parties
Condition
Calling or profession
Age
Dwelling place
Length of Residence (in the district)
Church/location of intended marriage
Name & relation of person giving consent for a minor.

You could post another message asking for an ITM lookup.

Bren


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cvp
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 14 April 07 04:08 BST (UK) »

Bren
...good idea, I've been browsing the 'Otago Witness' and discovered the Echunga arrived Dec 2nd 1865 with 78 passengers...still looking for a list of names.

thankyou for your assistance
kind regards

Craig


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Joseph Powell, Brains green, westbury on Severn

KiwiBrennan
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 14 April 07 05:05 BST (UK) »

Hi Craig

No problem.
We were able to place the arrival of our g-grandparents by using the ITM and the fact that the couple who were their witnesses were mentioned in govt documents regarding owing money for their passage. It named the ship, which we later traced via newpaper arrivals to 3 days before their marriage (they had listed their length of time in the district as 3 days).

Just looking on archives
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/

and there are a few sets of documents at Ch'ch which refer to the Echunga.

These two might be useful...
B. Woollcombe (Timaru) to Provincial Secretary - reports on Echunga and furnishes list of passengers landed at Timaru. Filed 1946(1 to 3) - 29/12/1862

Donald, Rouse, Reeves (Immigration) to Provincial Secretary - report on Echunga and passenger list. Filed 1961(1) - 29/12/1862

Post a lookup request for Archives Ch'Ch to see if someone can check them out for you.

Bren.


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KiwiBrennan
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 19 April 07 06:25 BST (UK) »

Hi Craig

Been at Archives, National Library & Turnbull Library in Wellington today.
Looked at the copy of the passenger list for the Echunga and no Joseph.

Also checked out the ITM:
Date of Notice = 18 July 1866
Date of Certificate = 21 July 1866
Joseph = Bachelor, Labourer, 24, Selwyn, 3yrs
Mary = Spinster, Servant, 17, Selwyn, 1 month
The marriage was to take place at the Selwyn Church.
John Crump (father) gave permission for Mary.

So they got married between 18 & 21 July inclusive.
Joseph had been in the district for 3 years, so he had been in NZ for at least that long too.

Bren


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cvp
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 19 April 07 19:36 BST (UK) »

Hi Bren
thats fantastic! ...thankyou for doing that.
Perplexing it didn't yeild any further clues to why his name doesn't appear on the shipping list.

There is a possibility the James Powell on the 'Echungs's 1862 sailing was his elder brother, so I might explore that line of the family and see what I get.

thanks again

Craig


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Joseph Powell, Brains green, westbury on Severn

Mk2_Zephyr
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #13 on: Friday 20 April 07 00:19 BST (UK) »

What about the Joseph and Mary Powell and family who arrived on the 'Brothers Pride' in dec 1863 ?

Is the cyclopedia entry your grandfather for sure ?


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cvp
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Re: 'Echunga' the mystery passenger?
« Reply #14 on: Friday 20 April 07 06:28 BST (UK) »

Cheers Mk2_Zephyr
Yes we also discovered them, but they were listed as coming from Hertfordshire as opposed to Gloucestershire.
Additionally I've just been supplied with Joseph's 'Intention to Marry Certificate' dated 1866 that states he had resided in NZ for three years and Mary only a month.

I've been into the Archives office in Christchurch today and sighted the Echunga's passenger list, hoping it might reveal something the websites didn't, but no joy.

A gentleman working there suggested he may have paid his voyage and not have been listed, but we have a copy of the Lyttelton Times listing the passengers that disembarked, and he doesn't appear in this either.

He paid for an article in the 'Cyclopaedia of NZ' in the late 1800's that says he arrived in the Echunga in 1862 ...surely you wouldn't forget a vessels name after spending 105 days on it!

I have checked nearly every other vessels list between 1858 - 1866 to no avail.


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