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Topic: When you run out of ideas....... (Read 899 times)
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Jillie42
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Posts: 537
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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What do you all do when you've run out of leads, stumped where to search next, exhausted all the obvious avenues?
The man I'm looking for is almost certainly my husband's grandfather.........up till recently nobody had any idea who he might be as my husband's dad was illegitimate.
Our mystery man was either born in 1903 or 1905 depending on which certificate you refer to - death or marriage 
He was apparently called Sidney but of the four Sidney's born between 1902 and 1906 two died after 1984 and the other two don't have a father called Robert (name of father according to marriage certificate). Our "Sidney" died in a1946.
He was living in the Islington/Edmonton area at his marriage in 1935 but no one with his surname "Dilley" is recorded on the electoral registers for Islington between 1920 and 1935 where our mystery man finally turns up with the correct spouse but called "WILLIAM" not Sidney.
Then, bizarrely when his widow (my husband's gt aunt) went to claim her widow's pension............it appears he already had a wife still living and she had been awarded the pension instead.
So now I'm stumped. His name doesn't appear to have been Sidney and I'm not even convinced it was William. He may or may not have come from north London. He may not have actually been EITHER of the ages on his certificates. Nobody knows the name of his first wife
1946 isn't even that long ago. What research sources do I need to look at? Where can I go next?
Any and I do mean ANY ideas would help. To have suddenly discovered my husband's grandfather and then learn no more about him is sooooooooooooo frustrating!
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Eaton (Woughton on the Green, Doncaster and N. London), Davis(Shinfield and London), Harrington (Ireland and London), Sutcliffe (Todmorden and London), Williams, Hollingsworth (Thaxted), Lane (Rotherhithe), Fuller (Chesterton, Cambs), Dilley (who knows where?  ) |
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Arranroots
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~ Grand Aunt Jenny ~
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Hi Jillie
How do you know that your Sidney died in 1946?
There is at least one possibility on the full BMD indexes for 1946, including a Sidney in Edmonton who died aged 43. Have you bought any death certs yet? (Ref 3a 1176, Mar q 1946)
kind regards, Arranroots 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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patrish
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Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow
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Be vary wary of fathers given names on illegitimate childrens marriage certificates, they were very often ficticious or a grandfathers etc.
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this information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk London Hall, Thurston Stanley, Phillips, Ayrton, White, Morrish, Smith. West Ham/Barking Saint,Briggs, Essex Barker, Hampshire Kill, Kent Spong, U.S.A Earp, Scotland/Cumbria Templeton, Devon Morrish, Chudley |
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Jillie42
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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We have Sid's death certificate - March 1946 aged 43 in Edmonton (you have the right one Arranroots) We know this is the right one. "Sid" (or whoever he was really) was my husband's gt uncle, and confusingly also probably his gt grandfather. On this, his "wife" gives his age as 43.
We also have his marriage certificate or......at least.......his second, bigamous marriage certificate. This was in April 1935 when he gives his age as 30.
As for his father being called Robert Dilley and apparently a railway porter, as stated on his marriage certificate........if we don't know who his real father was, how will we know if and when we get the correct birth certificate
There are 4 possible Sidney Dilleys on freebmd. between 1902 and 1906. Two of them died after 1984 so can't be our man. The other two are from Hendon Biggleswade, neither has a father called Robert.
The last bizarre bit of the puzzle happened several years after "Sid's" death. His two eldest sons were living in Muswell Hill abd returned home from school one day to say they had just seen their dad walking down the high street. It appears this was a half-brother of Sid's.
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Eaton (Woughton on the Green, Doncaster and N. London), Davis(Shinfield and London), Harrington (Ireland and London), Sutcliffe (Todmorden and London), Williams, Hollingsworth (Thaxted), Lane (Rotherhithe), Fuller (Chesterton, Cambs), Dilley (who knows where? ) |
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aghadowey
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Maybe 'Sidney' was born/baptised/registered with a different name and either change to Sidney or Sidney was a middle name which would not be on birth certificate. Both my grandfathers changed their names when in their teen but fortunately I know the original names and the reason names were changed.
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Arranroots
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~ Grand Aunt Jenny ~
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This is confusing - did Sid marry gt aunt and seduce grandma?
Did Sid have children with anyone else? He had some with gt aunt for example? If so, what did their certs say?
I like the idea of Sid himself having a half-brother as this might explain why he used more than one name - if a parent remarried.
Any idea what Sid's occupation was - maybe they kept records or commercial directories might help? It is not inconceivable that there are folk still alive who would remember him.
The railways apparently kept very good employee records, so it might be worth a shot at asking whether there is any trace of a Robert DILLEY, although it sounds unlikely.
Will just take another quick look ...
A
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Jillie42
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes, Arranroot.........it does appear that Sid got gt aunt pregnant then married her bigamously, then whilst gt aunt was still pregnant he had an affair with her twin sister and produced my husband's father. Sid and gt aunt had 4 sons and a daughter. The eldest son died in infancy. Two of the other sons have recently died leaving one son and a daughter born two months after Sid's death.
My father-in-law's birth was always shrouded in mystery with him never knowing for certain who his father was. it seems that most of the older members of the family had a pretty shrewd idea though.
After Sid's death his wife (gt aunt) refused to ever mention his name again and his surviving off-spring know almost nothing about him. However, I have asked his survivng daughter to look up her sibbling's birth certificates to see which name their father used. There is apparently an elderly friend of Sid's wife (gt aunt) who does remember Sid - not very favourably 
On Sid's marriage and death certificate it states that he was first a painter and decorator, then a warehouseman for the Ministry of Works. I have been in touch with them hoping that they kept old employment records - it appears they don't.
However, the thought about Robert Dilley and railway records is a very helpful one. I will deffinitely look into this.
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Eaton (Woughton on the Green, Doncaster and N. London), Davis(Shinfield and London), Harrington (Ireland and London), Sutcliffe (Todmorden and London), Williams, Hollingsworth (Thaxted), Lane (Rotherhithe), Fuller (Chesterton, Cambs), Dilley (who knows where? ) |
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patrish
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Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow
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This is a fascinating saga, I look forward to further instalments
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this information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk London Hall, Thurston Stanley, Phillips, Ayrton, White, Morrish, Smith. West Ham/Barking Saint,Briggs, Essex Barker, Hampshire Kill, Kent Spong, U.S.A Earp, Scotland/Cumbria Templeton, Devon Morrish, Chudley |
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Jillie42
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Yes.....if you'd seen this on a soap you wouldn't believe it would you?
My father-in-law came from a very strange family. He had several maiden aunts who were completely barking!!!! One of whom used to collect the mattresses of each relative as they died, then put their mattress under HER mattress......must have been bl**dy enormous by the time she died!
Who'd have believed family research could be such fun
Just a thought for anyone prepared to have a look though. I've assumed that Robert Dilley, if indeed he did ever exist, should be somewhere on the 1901 census. I've looked loads of times but without knowing where he came from or how old he was, it's damn near impossible. The only possible clue is his job as a Railway Porter.........however, he could have been doing anything in 1901.
I've just looked at Sid's marriage certificate again and Robert Dilley is (very conveniently) described as deceased.
What amazes us is that Sid's first wife managed to get her hands of his pension before his second wife. How on earth did she know he was dead? Were they still in contact?
As for him changing his first name......especially if he was actually WILLIAM....would you want too got through life being called WILLY DILLEY??
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Eaton (Woughton on the Green, Doncaster and N. London), Davis(Shinfield and London), Harrington (Ireland and London), Sutcliffe (Todmorden and London), Williams, Hollingsworth (Thaxted), Lane (Rotherhithe), Fuller (Chesterton, Cambs), Dilley (who knows where? ) |
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Arranroots
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~ Grand Aunt Jenny ~
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I did find a Robert in Islington in 1901 - a porter (prob not railway) living in a lodging house and described as married. In looking for his wife, I found a family with a small William
YES!! You guessed it! 2 year old Willy DILLEY
(Still bearing in mind that Robert could be a figment of Sid's imagination...)
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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Jillie42
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Arranroots!! I was modifying my post as you were writing yours - it appears that we both had the same thought about WILLY DILLEY.
The most awful thing is had my father-in-law actually taken his fahter's name instead of using his mother's name, MY name would have been JILLY DILLEY!!!!
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Eaton (Woughton on the Green, Doncaster and N. London), Davis(Shinfield and London), Harrington (Ireland and London), Sutcliffe (Todmorden and London), Williams, Hollingsworth (Thaxted), Lane (Rotherhithe), Fuller (Chesterton, Cambs), Dilley (who knows where? ) |
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Clincher
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I notice that you have already checked some electoral registers. Have you checked all the electoral registers relating to all the addresses given on the certificates you already have?
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Arranroots
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~ Grand Aunt Jenny ~
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Well, I am going to think of you as Jillie Dilley anyway! And if you are not sensible you will be Silly Jillie Dilley!
I wonder if you have looked through the full BMDs for DILLEY marriages? There must be a fairly small "window" when Sid was old enough to marry his first wife and before he married the second one?
You could also look for Robert DILLEY deaths ( or have you done that, I have lost the plot?!?)
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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patrish
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Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow
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This is great cheering me up no end as its to warm for me to go in the garden. 
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this information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk London Hall, Thurston Stanley, Phillips, Ayrton, White, Morrish, Smith. West Ham/Barking Saint,Briggs, Essex Barker, Hampshire Kill, Kent Spong, U.S.A Earp, Scotland/Cumbria Templeton, Devon Morrish, Chudley |
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