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Topic: Where in Berwickshire do I go? (Read 770 times)
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MysticBreeze
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 117
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I hope to visit Scotland next year. As most of my ancestors came from Berwick (Stotts, Galloway, Palmer, Moffat) .. where can I call in to do further genealogy whilst there? I am having trouble (probably more due to lack of researching experience overseas) trying to confirm that Helen Galloway who married Ralph Stott is the Helen Galloway born in Edinburgh to John Galloway and Helen Nicol ... the age fits and shes the only one born in Edinburgh according to the Scotspeople site ... but how do I confirm its her? She died in England in 1891. Would her death cert have her date of birth?
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kooky
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 1067
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The Record Office in Berwick might be a good place to start. The staff are very helpful.
Berwick on Tweed is actually in Northumberland, England.
The death certificate will have an age at death, but not a date of birth. This will give you an idea of when to look.
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Clulo - Staffs.,Warwickshire, Lancs.1780 -1950
Fisher- Nafferton,Hull, Manchester.1770-1840-1950
Kane&McNeill,Forkhill, Armagh and Glasgow,Bray Dublin.1850s -1920
Boshell and Dowzard- Dublin, 1840s -1911
Kay/Bremner Edinburgh 1800 - 1841.Kay Staffs.& Lancs1842 -1901
Kay - Newcastle on Tyne 1780-1861
Swindell[s], Marple & Manchester 1900->
Makinson, M/c & Prestwich 1870 ->
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jora
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 49
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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It depends whether you are interested in Berwickshire, or the town of Berwick-upon-Tweed.
Berwick Record Office is in Northumberland, and holds records mainly for the north of the county and for the town of Berwick. If it is Berwickshire you want to research, the new Borders Family History centre is at Hawick. It was set to open in March this year. I haven't heard if it has opened yet, but should be OK for your visit next year.
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maddy706
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 95
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Hi Mystic
I am going too register house in Edinburgh thisweek Thursday if u would like me too do a look up please let me know . I will certainly try and help all i can
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KEANEY , FEENEY , MORAN , HUGHAN , MCNAMARA , O'MALLEY , LAIDLAW , DRYDON , AIKMAN , WILDE , THOMSON , WILDE , CAMPBELL ,HESTER
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MysticBreeze
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 117
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That would be fantastic if you could do a look up for me - only if you have time though as I know how long it takes. I have the 1841 Census which shows them living in I think it looks like Newfortland Street in Edinburgh. John Galloway was 55, Helen 40, William and Agnes? 15, Helen 13 and Janet 10. On info here in New Zealand it states Helen's (10 year old one) name was Helen Janet Galloway ... but this Janet is Helen Lindsday Galloway. This Helen named one of her sons Lindsay ... The 1851 census shows Helen as being 24 and being born in Midlothian Edinburgh.
Helen married Ralph Stott in 1848. I have no idea when she came to Eyemouth but obviously between 1841-1848! I can't find her family on the 1851 census (if they are her family).
Thank you so much ... no worries though if you don't have time  )
Michelle
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maddy706
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Hi
I'm sure i'll have plenty time i'll b there 8 hours so i'll do my best .
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KEANEY , FEENEY , MORAN , HUGHAN , MCNAMARA , O'MALLEY , LAIDLAW , DRYDON , AIKMAN , WILDE , THOMSON , WILDE , CAMPBELL ,HESTER
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4430
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Hi Michelle,
Unfortunately, it may not be possible to confirm that Helen (GALLOWAY) STOTT is the same person as Helen Lindsay GALLOWAY, daughter of John GALLOWAY & Helen NICOL  Though it is encouraging that she named a son Lindsay ...
FreeCEN records the Edinburgh street in the 1841 census as Newport St.
I see that there are entries for the 1848 marriage in Aberdour, Fife and in Eyemouth, Berwickshire - was it Ralph or Helen who was resident in Eyemouth at the time of the marriage.
I take it that you have searched on ScotlandsPeople for the GALLOWAY family in 1851 - if their Helen were still with them, that would at least be negative proof.
A search on SP for deaths of John GALLOWAY and/or Helen (NICOL) GALLOWAY might be worth doing just in case Helen (GALLOWAY) STOTT was the informant ... Though, given that John GALLAWAY (sic) and Helen NICOL married in 1812, they may well not have survived until the time of statutory registration (which began in Scotland in 1855).
I wonder whether there might have been a newspaper death notice wherever Helen (GALLOWAY) SCOTT died - which might mention her parents. Or a monumental inscription in the relevant cemetery? I think you said she died in Luton, Bedfordshire.
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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MysticBreeze
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 117
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Thank you for replying. Yes this is the same Helen Galloway who married Ralph Stott in 1848. I'm trying to see if I can obtain a newspaper clipping if there was one in Luton where she died in 1897. None of her children were named John ... which makes me wonder if it really is her, but I cannot find another Helen of a similar age born in Edinburgh. She is on the 1851 census in Scotland as being born in Midtalhion Edinburgh.
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JAP
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Posts: 4430
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Hi maddy706,
It might help in your searches - and perhaps save some time - if you have a look at other threads on this family (if you haven't seen them already):
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,227883
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,227884
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,227885
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,227886
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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MysticBreeze
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 117
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JAP where did you see the marriage in 1848 in Aberdour? I have a copy of the Parish register for Ralph and Helen's marriage in Berwick but didn't see a marriage in Aberdour. Where can I find this? Thank you
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JAP
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Posts: 4430
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MysticBreeze,
In the IGI (International Genealogical Index) on the FamilySearch site at:
http://www.familysearch.org/
Refer to the following thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,227883
(That thread has other relevant information).
If you search in the IGI for a marriage of a Ralph STOTT and a Helen GALLOWAY, region British Isles there are two hits - same date, one in Aberdour Fife and the other in Eyemouth, Berwickshire.
JAP
PS: Both entries are also on the (pay per view) ScotlandsPeople site at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
You could download (for a fee) a copy of the Aberdour OPR entry from SP.
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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MysticBreeze
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 117
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Thanks. I'm downloading the Fife marriage now from Scotspeople. Why do you think they married twice?? I cannot find Lewis/Louis Galloway/Gallaway on the 1841 census. I'm just downloading the marriage of Lewis Gordon/Galloway's marriage to Ann Dewar .. can't find any further children for them other than Helen! ... Lots of Ann Galloways in 1841 but none with Helen ... what to do what to do! lol. It does seem strange that the 1851 census states Helen was born in Edinburgh and there is a family with her age there in the 1841 census ... but father is John (no children named John by Helen). I love a challenge - and Scotspeople is fantastic.
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4430
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MysticBreeze,
The two entries do not mean that they married twice. Often all you get in the OPRs are the calling of Banns (sometimes there is also mention of when and where the actual marriage took place, and who officiated - but far from always). The Banns were usually called in both parishes if bride and groom were resident in different parishes. The idea behind the calling of Banns was that it gave anyone who objected to the marriage on valid grounds (e.g. that one party was already married!) the opportunity to come forward.
As Helen lived until 1897 (as I recall) you presumably have many census entries for her. Do the others simply say born Scotland, or is Edinburgh mentioned elsewhere, or is there any other place mentioned.
On another thread I gave information from FreeCEN about an Ann GALLAWAY (sic) in Aberdour with a Hellen (sic) aged 14 (and other possible children) in the 1841.
Perhaps you can post the details when you have finished downloading the marriage of Lewis & Ann, the birth of their daughter Helen, and the Aberdour entry for the marriage of Ralph & Helen - there might just be something in them which gives someone a further lead.
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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MysticBreeze
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 117
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Thank you for the information about the banns ... its all new to me so I greatly appreciate your help and information.
The marriage information for Lewis Galloway and Ann Dewar definately doesn't give his middle name as Gordon. Something is scribbled in the middle but its not Gordon. It looks like borp... definately has a p in it - its very difficult to read.
The marriage cert for Ralph and Helen says Ralph Stott of this parish (Eyemouth) and Helen Galloway of the parish of Aberdour married 13 July 1848 .. Minister of Free Church.
The marriage cert for Ralph and Helen in Berwick says July 1st 1848 contracted Ralph Stott, joiner in Berwick on Tweed and Helen Galloway in this Parish and after regular proclamation on 2nd & 9th were married on 13th (looks like currt).
Only the Eyemouth 1851 census states Helen was born in Midlothian Edinburgh. All the others, up until her death simply state Scotland.
I can't find the births of their children Louis/Lewis or Ralph or Robert (who is 1 on the 1851 Eyemouth census) who were also born in Scotland according to all the census.
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
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The marriage cert for Ralph and Helen in Berwick says July 1st 1848 contracted Ralph Stott, joiner in Berwick on Tweed and Helen Galloway in this Parish and after regular proclamation on 2nd & 9th were married on 13th (looks like currt). MysticBreeze, I assume that in the above sentence you mean the entry in the parish register for Aberdour not Berwick. And yes, it would be 'currt' i.e. an abbreviation of 'current' meaning the current month (i.e. July 1848).
The marriage cert for Ralph and Helen says Ralph Stott of this parish (Eyemouth) and Helen Galloway of the parish of Aberdour married 13 July 1848 .. Minister of Free Church. This extract from the parish register is very useful!
Although the marriage is entered into the OPR (Old Parish Register of the established Presbyterian Church of Scotland), the marriage was actually performed by a minister of the Free Church.
The Church of Scotland experienced many schisms and breakaway groups. A diagram which explains this can be found at:
http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/churchhistory.html
Do have a quick look at the diagram before reading on ...
The records on ScotlandsPeople before 1855 (when Statutory Registration began) are only from the OPRs i.e. the parish registers of the established Church of Scotland.
However, as Ralph & Helen were married by a Free Church minister, it is quite likely that, if they had their children baptized (far from all parents did so), it would have been by a Free Church minister and would have been recorded in a Free Church register.
Sometimes such baptisms were also recorded in the local OPR (just as Ralph & Helen's marriage was despite the fact that it was performed by a Free Church minister) but more often than not they weren't.
Just to add a further twist, the IGI does sometimes include entries from other church registers. But a check of the Family History Library catalogue on the FamilySearch site reveals that, for Eyemouth, only the OPRs of the Parish Church have been filmed by the LDS.
Whether or not any records of the local Free Church have survived anywhere I do not know.
The GENUKI page on Eyemouth at:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/BEW/Eyemouth/index.html
has interesting sections on Church History and Church Records.
But it seems that, at this stage, there is probably no point in keeping on looking for births/baptisms of Lewis, Robert and Ralph.
JAP
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Scotland - HALL, HARLEY, LOCHTY/LOCHTIE/LOUGHTIE/LOUGHTY (very rare), MCLAUSE/MCLAWS/MCILHOSE/HOSE (quite rare and many very variable spellings - close to 100 to date), PHILP/PHILIP, VASSIE; Ireland - BOURKE/BURKE, DONOHUE (many spellings), DOOLEY, KINSELLA, MAXWELL, OSBORNE, RAFFERTY, STA(U)NTON, SULLIVAN; England - BAYES, BROWNELL, DALTON, FREEMAN, HACKING, PIERCY, SIDDLE, SWIFT, SULLIVAN, TINK(L)ER, TRIPPIT. Any spellings and many other names!
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