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Topic: Getting things right on RootsChat (Read 5421 times)
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
 Online
Posts: 9819
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Hi Barbara
Your post makes one important assumption: that everyone who contributes to a thread approves of everything that is written after they have posted.
As Pam has described above, threads might start well (and be funny, informative or otherwise valuable) but later posts can be of dubious merit and it is there that the problem can arise.
We cannot assume that all those who have posted on a thread agree with everything on it. Far less can we assume that the other 40,000 (less 20) who have not posted agree with the Moderators' decision or with the person whose post is removed - we plain don't know! 
All we can do is to act in good faith to do what we believe is the best/ right thing. 
In general
It is a fact of life that sometimes Mods will sometimes make mistakes. 
There is a suggested approach when this happens and/ or a poster disagrees with an action a Moderator has taken. Please contact that Mod (or another) to discuss. Locking your own thread because it has been "unfairly" edited; resigning or posting "It's not fair" objections on the boards are all quite understandable reactions - but they do not help in the long run. Many other Rootschatters find themselves as puzzled and distressed by this sort of activity as by whatever the Moderator did. 
I am not saying that a protest by PM to the Mods will reverse whatever decision has been taken. It is difficult to quantify the opinions of the silent majority of Rootschatters and the only way the Moderating team can gauge what they might be thinking is to listen to the Reports to Moderator that have been made and then discuss among themselves.
Please bear in mind that Moderators are not all made out of a single mould - we vary enormously in our sense of humour, political allegiance, bedtime etc!! The one thing we have in common is that we have been asked by T&S to give up a little of our time to help run Rootschat.
Thank you all for your comments: it has helped me personally to get a clearer picture of how Rootschatters are thinking - obviously there is a variety of opinion, which is exactly what the Moderating team are trying to reflect.
Remember - we are here for you - use us, don't abuse us! 
Arranroots
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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bigcol
RootsChat Extra
 Offline
Posts: 65
My Dad
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Hi, everyone!
What type of community is Rootschat?
It is a family oriented site - yes, I agree! Do you never have fallings-out and disagreements in your family?
The problem seems to be, in my opinion, that some people are unable to accept that someone else may have a different opinion to themselves. They are not confident in their own beliefs and values, therefore they believe that they must attack the beliefs and values of others.
There was plenty of good-natured banter, criticism, comment and nationalistic tub-thumping on the Australia v England cricketing threads, some of it quite strong, yet it wasn't pulled by the Mods. I suggest that the spirit of the comments was recognised by the Mods and the comments were not seen as inflammatory. (Isn't nationalism political?).
Unless comments are unpleasantly racist or perhaps slanderous (ie breaking the law) then surely the family of Rootschatters can accept the fact that someone else may think differently without entering into violent argument or villification.
After all, isn't freedom of speech the opportunity to say something that nobody else likes?
Colin
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kerryb
RootsChat Marquessate
Online
Posts: 10481
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Kerryb, some are even still on the boards that offend me or amaze me that they have been missed Please use the report to moderator function or let us know. We cannot read every post, it is physically impossible. Thanks, Pam
Kerry
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSearching for my family - Baldwin - Sussex, Middlesex, Cork, Pilbeam - Sussex, Harmer - Sussex, Terry - Surrey, Kent, Rhoades - Lincs, Roffey - Surrey, Traies - Devon & Middlesex & many many more to be found on my website .... www.kerrysfamilyhistory.co.uk |
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4467
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I'm sure that we are all grateful to the moderators and that we all recognize, and thank them for, the time which they voluntarily devote to RootsChat.
However, it seems to me that the most significant problem, and the one which is currently concerning all thoughtful RootsChatters, is the lack of consistency in actions taken by Moderators and Copyright Editors.
It is obvious from many posts that it is very disheartening (and sometimes even hurtful) to RootsChatters to have posts or threads deleted for an unstated (or even a stated) reason, or to have information removed from posts on the basis of copyright, when they/we have no idea whatsoever how the material 'offended' in nature or content or format compared with what they/we themselves/ourselves have posted previously and/or what remains unmoderated/unexpurgated elsewhere on RC.
The question of consistency can only be resolved by the Moderators and Copyright Editors themselves ('Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?', eh!).
So, over to you mods 
Best regards to all,
JAP
PS: Pam, yes there are times when my eyebrows lift at what I perceive as political, religious, racist, smutty or otherwise inappropriate posts here. But I just drop the eyebrows and move on. I certainly wouldn't go "dobbing" posters to moderators - it's all just part of the rich tapestry of life (as the cliche has it) 
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bigcol
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 65
My Dad
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Upon reading my earlier posting (No. 55, above), I realise that it is possible to read it as an attack on the Moderators - not so!
I am referring to the occasional Rootschatter who enters into online arguments over politics, religion, race etc in the most disgraceful terms. It is these comments that the Mods have to delete.
I was simply appealing for tolerance and acceptance that, although a comment may be unpopular, or even perhaps couched in "unsavoury" terms, reasonable people will read it, ignore it and move on without feeling the need to attack the commentator or villify his/her views.
The Moderators do a difficult job, but a necessary one, and I had no intention of attacking them as a group or individually.
My apologies!
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Llwyd
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 410
Searching,forever searching!!!.
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I think some people get confused between what is offensive and what they hold opposing views on or disapprove of.
A comment or point of view with which one disagrees or disapproves of does not necessarily make that comment offensive.
Consequently complainants should ask themselves a simple question, "Do I genuinely find this offensive or do I just disagree with it?."
I think the test, for the Mods at least, is, "Would the ordinary, reasonable person in the street find this offensive?".
I appreciate that what I may find offensive would not cause another person to even blink, or vice versa, but throughout society today there does seem to be the overriding belief that if one does not agree with a certain point of view, then it is, of necessity, offensive; even to the extent that it is possible to be offended vicariously.
However, the Mods do a fine job and need the wisdom of Solomon. A task I would not relish.
From a not easily offended,
Llwyd.
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« Last Edit: Thursday 26 April 07 14:39 BST (UK) by Llwyd »
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Humphreys; originating in Montgomeryshire and spreading out locally, nationally and internationally.
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pjbuk007
RootsChat Senior
Offline
Posts: 471
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I tend towards the Arranroots and indiapaleale view of this issue.
As I have said before, there are many sites on the net where you can have no-hold-barred political discussions, but in my view rootschat is NOT that place. The atmosphere is mainly terrific, and members are SO helpful. I have found some threads upsetting and offensive, and I use the word advisedly. The offensive ones have assumed a world-view very different to my own, I can live with that, but have also contained propaganda and incorrect facts to back up their arguments. Some of these have been from sources which have been discredited or are known to be funded by partisan and biased interest groups. So what do I do? Correct/question the data and get involved in an acrimonious argument? Or just ignore the discussion and allow rootschat to become a medium for propounding misinformation? Nowadays I try not read anything posted in "Lighter Side" for this reason, but thereby miss much that is interesting.
The family analogy does not hold. If we are having a family party to celebrate Aunt Agnes' 100th, we do not have in-depth discussions about political issues because some of us hold opposing views, and in fact have stood for Parliament/campaigned on opposite sides of some issues. We do not want to detract from the reason for the occasion and upset the other guests, some of whom are ranged on our sides, and some of whom do not care. We may well talk these topics over between ourselves in the Pub, or at each others' houses. But we do not try to drag everyone in to our arguments.
I belong to another message board partly devoted to controversial topics, and I know when I am on there I can be "flamed" and that I have to hold my ground and argue my case coherently and with proper citations of backup facts which I use. This is quite a different experience to Rootschat, and populated by experienced campaigners with differing viewpoints and agendas.
I find that the Mods do a great job. I am only too happy that they delete inappropriate threads. The Ts & Cs allow the Mods to do what they think appropriate, and I hope they continue to do so. As for explaining or PMing about what they have done, this seems to be a time-consuming proposal which will lead to more ill-feeling and argument. Why not just leave politics and controversy out of Rootschat? Why not keep it as a Family History site? Fine, in the Lighter Side, folk can post about their own experiences, but please can we keep it more like Aunt Agnes' birthday party and less like the saloon bar of the Rabid Duck?
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BENNET(T); NRY- Brotton, CON BURTON; NRY- Saltburn, Guisborough, Marske, Stokesley Judge Newark Lincoln BURTON , USA DALES; NRY- Brotton, LIN - Orby DAVIES GEORGE: GLA - Oystermouth & Penarth, CON LINCOLN. Middlesbrough, NRY, Durham PERRETT Gloucestershire QUESTED London. Assisting with One-name Study. TRASK; GLA - Cardiff, Barry etc, SOM - South Petherton WESTED Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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liverpool lass
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 853
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I tend towards the Arranroots and indiapaleale view of this issue. I find that the Mods do a great job. I am only too happy that they delete inappropriate threads. The Ts & Cs allow the Mods to do what they think appropriate, and I hope they continue to do so. As for explaining or PMing about what they have done, this seems to be a time-consuming proposal which will lead to more ill-feeling and argument. Why not just leave politics and controversy out of Rootschat? Why not keep it as a Family History site? Fine, in the Lighter Side, folk can post about their own experiences, but please can we keep it more like Aunt Agnes' birthday party and less like the saloon bar of the Rabid Duck? HEAR, HEAR!! Well done mods! I for one am happy to let them decide. If I read something I don't like I don't go back to that thread Like the off button on the TV! |
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Lewis/Morgan - Carmarthenshire
Jones - Denbighshire
McCormack/McLoughlin - Liverpool
McKenzie - Liverpool/Lanarkshire/ Aus/USA/NZ
Evans - Merionethshire
Turnell - Northamptonshire
Jones - Glamorgan
Wood - Nova Scotia, Mass, USA
Booth - Aus
Francis - Carmarthen
Griffiths - Glamorgan and Llanelli
Morgan - Llanelly, Pontardulais
Williams - Llanelly
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 2474
Stutzy "2 toes" Fallon M.D. ~ 1974 to 1987
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Consequently complainants should ask themselves a simple question, "Do I genuinely find this offensive or do I just disagree with it?."
I think the test, for the Mods at least, is, "Would the ordinary, reasonable person in the street find this offensive?".
Llwyd,
There is one added aspect I think is missing here which I tried to illustrate. The question I have asked myself when reading some threads is
"Where do I think this is going?"
There may of been a percieved tighter control on moderating than previously but this has been triggered by something. Is it easy to put my finger on what? No it isn't.
If I think a "PC type" thread is meandering into territory I think is becoming unsavoury then I make take action earlier. In my case that action is likely to be a post to divert the thread back to a less inflammatory course.
Discussions like this are good and do help shape the way we moderate.
What is particularly negative and unconstructive is a peppering of public outrage and crying foul over "big brother" censorship. This often misrepresents the situation and creates a bad feeling across a wider audience than even read the original threads. And we do remove these threads as they are personal and hurtful - I would (and have) remove the same kind of thread where one user slates another user.
Fact is we do have the right to remove content - it's a legal measure. In my time as moderator, 3 years and fast running to an end, I have removed rape jokes, racist, anti-gay, anti-women, threads. So do I think every user of RC is a sensible poster - well let's just say, I don't assume.
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
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Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
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Barbara F
RootsChat Aristocrat
Online
Posts: 2722
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I was travelling from Cornwall to Buckinghamshire yesterday and spent quite a bit of the time thinking about this thread and whether I should contribute – well, it is a very long journey
I am assuming that the problems have come from postings on the Lighter Side or TOTB Boards. I am not a regular on these boards although I join in occasionally and have a laugh at some of the postings and the banter.
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I suppose what really concerns me is that these boards, which are not at the heart of the Rootschat forum, should be causing so much upset and taking up so much moderator time. I joined Rootschat because it is a family history forum. I have had help from lots of people here and hope I have been able to help others with their family history. When I look at my unread posts I don’t want to see grievances about deleted threads on non family history subjects. I don’t want the mods to feel they are being attacked - I want them to be able to spend their time sharing their expertise and keeping the main forum boards running smoothly
The off topic boards do serve a purpose – they have, I believe, increased the sense of community; they enable us to have a laugh; and they present opportunities to support fellow Rootschatters at times of distress.
If the mods consider a posting on one of these boards is inappropriate then I think it should be deleted and an explanation sent to the person who initiated the thread. And that should be the end of it. If this is not acceptable then perhaps we should get rid of these boards entirely so that we can concentrate on what we do best – helping each other with our Family History.
Barbara
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Joy, Larkin, Twort, Baker, Whibley - Brenchley and Horsmonden area Kent Fewell and Speller - Essex and London Headington and Bateman - London Feltwell - Norfolk and London Lewin - India and NZ Evan-Thomas - Wales and London Purser and Cook - Hunts Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Lydart
RootsChat Aristocrat
Offline
Posts: 2809
RootsChatting about dead ancestors ...
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While I to some small extent agree with Barbara's view and ideas, I think it is the non-family history boards which help to build up the RootsChat family ... we can get straight family history advice and help elsewhere on other sites, but it is the friendly, family atmosphere of RC that makes it so special, and its why I joined.
I have had enormous help and advice on FH matters from the kindly and knowledgeable people on RC, but its the fun pages that make us friends. You cant have a plain pudding without the cream to help it along, and so it is with RC .. the FH advice is the pud; the fun boards are the cream, and each benefits the other !
Lets keep it as it is; keep certain standards always before us, and enjoy each others company and knowledge.
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Dorset/Wiltshire: Trowbridge, Williams, Sturney, Prince, Foyle, Fripp, Triggle ... and more Cornwall/Devon/CANADA(The Cariboo, B.C.): Pomeroy Somerset: Clark(e) Durham: Law London: Poplett Lancashire/Cheshire/CANADA (B.C.): Stubbs, Walmesley WRITE LETTERS TO YOUR FAMILY FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TREASURE ... EMAILS DISAPPEAR FOREVER ! Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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JAP
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4467
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I don't know whether the OP, JulianB, would agree, but - to my mind - this thread seems to have gone somewhat awry.
And many posters are addressing points which are not remotely at issue.
Could we all agree
a) that RootsChat is absolutely wonderful (please, please, Trystan & Sarah don't let this current discussion upset you at all - it's just a little family tiff among a generally loving family!)
b) that Moderators (and Copyright Editors) are needed
c) that (overall) they do a fine job
d) that we thank them for all the time they voluntarily spend on this
e) that we recognize that, being human, they may make mistakes and won't always get things right
f) that we readily forgive them if they make mistakes or don't get thing right.
So let's not debate, or discuss, further any of those points.
None of the above is, I believe, what has produced this current thread (and other similar threads).
As I've said earlier, I think the question is one of inconsistency.
Please moderators, get together and see where things have gone off course.
And off course they certainly seem to have gone.
There surely is a problem (possibly easily resolved?) when so many RootsChatters who are generally acknowledged as great supporters of RC, as friendly, and as extremely reasonable express concern at recent actions of their Moderators which they cannot begin to understand, and cannot relate to non-action on other threads.
Over to you mods,
JAP
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