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Topic: Getting things right on RootsChat (Read 6079 times)
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julianb
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1439
Portrait of the genealogist as a young man
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I recognise our Rootschat Moderators have a difficult job, and I have been known to offer messages of support to them (in the knowledge that some will heckle and call me a creep) when I think they have done the right thing.
But I, and am sure others too, would like to have a better understanding from our Moderators as to what counts as an unacceptable posting, and the criteria used to remove posts/threads.
I’m pretty comfortable about issues relating to identifiable living people, and on copyright issues, but other “unacceptable” posts I am much less clear about.
On the basis that Rootschatters will have opinions (and wit), there will be occasions when the unclear line is crossed. The difficulty is that what seems acceptable on one thread can appear to be unacceptable on another. I’ve recently looked at some threads and then gone back to find that they have disappeared.
On one of these occasions, I could understand that some might have found the subject matter uncomfortable, but there is a choice that us Rootschatters have to go elsewhere. I don’t agree with some of the opinions expressed on here, but that doesn’t mean that I think those posts should be deleted
On another occasion, what I thought was a perfectly innocent thread appears to have disappeared, ie been deleted.
I have heard from other RootsChatters that some threads and posts are being deleted and those responsible for putting them there in the first place have not received an explanation as to why they have been deleted.
So I guess I’m asking for two things.
First, can we be clearer about what is “verboten”. This will make our Moderators job a lot easier. I could find little advice about this anywhere, apart from the netiquette thread stickied at the top of this board http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,123033.0.html, which focuses on behaviour rather than content.
Second, can there be a protocol in operation where those whose posts have been deleted receive an explanation from our Moderators as to why the post was unsuitable and therefore why it has been quarantined/deleted.
What do others (Moderators and Rootschatters) think? Are the current guidelines clear enough? What areas need more clarification? Does my proposed protocol make sense?
JULIAN
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Essex - Carter, Danns, Mason, Middleditch, Pond, Poole, Rose, Sorrell, Surry, Theobald Hunts - Danns Kent - Luetchford Nottinghamshire - Baker Suffolk - Rose Surrey - Baker, Bedel, Bransden, Carter, Coleman, Gibbs, Luetchford, Quinton Sussex - Gibbs, Langridge Wiltshire - Brice, Rumble Rootschatters fh websites - http://www.rootschat.com/links/04lg/ Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ |
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kerryb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11962
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No I don't think the current guidelines are clear enough at all, which is being demonstrated by the confusion and amazement that is being currently felt by some of us.
Who actually decides what is deemed unsuitable for a thread, because whilst some threads have been deleted and I have read them and chuckled, others have been left on the boards and some are even still on the boards that offend me or amaze me that they have been missed. Now I don't bother to report them because I feel there are going to be things which offend me and I turn away just as something which makes me laugh doesn't make others laugh.
In other words we are all different.
So yes if we were a bit clearer about what is acceptable and what is not, not only would we know what to post and what not to post, we would stop all this confusion.
However I ask again who actually decides what is unsuitable because sometimes they want to get out more!
Sorry Julian this thread will probably be locked or deleted now!
Kerry
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSearching for my family - Baldwin - Sussex, Middlesex, Cork, Pilbeam - Sussex, Harmer - Sussex, Terry - Surrey, Kent, Rhoades - Lincs, Roffey - Surrey, Traies - Devon & Middlesex & many many more to be found on my website .... www.kerrysfamilyhistory.co.uk |
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Arranroots
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10929
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I think you are right to raise the issue Julian, and thank you for raising it in a way that promotes discussion.
I think that what needs to be clarified as much as anything is the way in which we should address differences of opinion about what is acceptable. It will not be possible to write a set of rules that cover every possibility.
If there is something that a Rootschatter finds unacceptable, or a Moderator has questions about, it will sometimes be moved to Quarantine while we think about whether it is Ok to be left, or whether a few changes are needed. There is not always time in the lives of busy Mods to explain in detail at this stage.
What is not helpful is if this simple action results in a post or posts on the boards questioning what has been done. Ideally the Mod will have explained, but if not a simple PM to a Mod (any Mod) will result in an explanation - but please give us time to respond - we nearly all work and run households too!
Exceptionally, it might be felt by a group of Mods in discussion that a thread should not be returned to the boards, in which case an explanation will be forthcoming to the person who posted the material which has caused the discussion. It will not always be possible to PM everyone who contributed, if the thread is very long, but we will do our best!
If, after discussion, we feel that a mistake has been made, the thread will be returned to the boards in its entirety.
I hope that this process is acceptable, but I can only say - as has been said before - Rootschat is free, it is run by volunteers who do their best and we will sometimes make mistakes. However, we do have feelings too and we would rather resolve things that have upset our members through discussion than by cross words on the boards (and indeed elsewhere on the internet).
I hope this helps to explain, but if not, please feel free to Pm any Mod at any time
kind regards, Arranroots 
p.s. Hi Kerry - sorry I wrote this as you were posting.
I hope it won't be deleted or modified, otherwise I have wasted my time! 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS WIL: WEBB, SALTER RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK) |
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kerryb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 11962
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I hope not too Arranroots
It's always better to discuss than to fester
Kerry
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSearching for my family - Baldwin - Sussex, Middlesex, Cork, Pilbeam - Sussex, Harmer - Sussex, Terry - Surrey, Kent, Rhoades - Lincs, Roffey - Surrey, Traies - Devon & Middlesex & many many more to be found on my website .... www.kerrysfamilyhistory.co.uk |
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Lydart
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3568
Great Granny Williams, the Dorset button maker
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Julian (and Arranroots) ... I think you have set out the case very calmly and fairly.
I completely agree that if a thread, or part of one, has to be deleted, it is another form of 'netiquette' to put an explanation, simply and clearly ... and also at the same time to politely inform the transgressor via a PM ... otherwise how can we all learn ?
I'm aware that certain unacceptable words, such as the 'lady dog' word get automatically altered, and we are all aware that if we feel the need to use a dodgy word, we use lots of ***** - I myself started a thread a while back about the date of the F word coming into common useage ... no-one complained or deleted anything, and it was an interesting discussion.
There have been under-currents of acrimony between some people and on some threads in the last week or so ... I had been away for 10 days, and sensed it at once on my return, yet couldnt put my finger on it. This is NOT acceptable ... we are a 'family' site, in both meanings of the word, and it should be the duty of all of us to use it sensibly, politely, kindly and courteously. Goodness me, RootsChat is the best site for family history discussion there is; the added 'fun' bits make it all the more valuable and wonderful to use.
I have no idea why, but I get the feeling that there should be a bit of 'kiss and make up' between some people ... you know who you are, 99% of us have no idea, and don't want to know ... BUT DO IT PLEASE, for the sake of the continuation of RootsChat.
Thanks again Julian, for bringing this up ... it took courage.
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Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge, Williams, Sturney, Prince, Foyle, Fripp, Triggle ... and more C'wall/Devon/CANADA (The Cariboo, B.C.): Pomeroy Som'set: Clark(e) Durham: Law London: Poplett Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (B.C.): Stubbs, Walmesley WRITE LETTERS FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO TREASURE ... EMAILS DISAPPEAR FOREVER ! Census information Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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If I can add a few words.
There is good reason why there is not a prescriptive list of content. The world is a varied and Technicolor place there are many different discussions we can have and many different ways of expressing ourselves.
A moderator has to use judgment as to the appropriateness of content. Not always for the content itself but the likely direction a thread may take.
This is never personal.
If I can illustrate a typical grey area - now please be aware I am making this up and am not referring to any specific thread - past, present or future (and any likeness to the living or dead is coincidental).
Example:
Post 1: School bans mobile phones.
Post 2-7: Discussion on where's and why fors.
Post 8: Side track onto religious objects (eg headscarves)
Post 9: Comment on PC brigade
Post 10: Comment on "britishness"
Post 11: Comment on asylum seekers
Post 12: Comment on get back where they came from...
Post 13: Comment on outrageousness of previous comment...
Post 14: All out cyber war between those who agree and those who don't.
Question, when is the appropriate place for me as a mod to split, edit, delete, remove?
We see quite a few posts degrade into argument - I'm even guilty of taking part on occasion. The prime focus is for RC to be a pleasant place to be. No personal attacks, no hatred etc. Now for me personally I would split that thread at post 7 and post a note explaining why I'd locked the thread - because I would lock it.
Why would I lock it? Because I see no value in discussing my judgment publicly. I can never please everyone so I'm not willing to spend the precious minutes I have to help people debating.
Another mod may see it and say whoops no time to edit/split etc as I 'm flying through before going the laundry so I'll quarantine the whole thread, intending to review later what can be returned.
Am I just rambling now? Probably!
The example above only shows my judgment. Other individuals will have different opinions - other mods will have different opinions. That's why we discuss.
There has been a lot of chat recently regarding PMs from mods to explain an action. In the past I quarantined a thread with 15 different contributors - 15 PMs, x% of replies to read and respond to. Cor blimey, - bear in mind I'm writing this message in work after 14 hour shift. No lunch no dinner  POOR ME!
We do our best and will continue to (hopefully) keep our judgment on the side of peace and equality.
I will try to write a full guidance post but in my simple mind it is quite simple.
This is a family website we have young members.
Everything you post can be read publicly.
Think - is it appropriate for a child to read?
Can what I write be seen as inflammatory?
I am not going to provide a list of what can and can't be posted as that removes the posters judgment. Think of the principle and spirit of the website. Family History ROCKS! Let's not forget that is why we want to be here.
I'm happy to discuss any of the points by PM in relation to specifics but I will not discuss another person's judgment. That would be unfair.
All the best,
Pam
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
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Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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Cal241
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1169
her father scares me so Mat is back with her Butt!
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Yes I agree with Lydart ...... a very calm and fair discussion from all sides.
We are all only human and we make mistakes/ errors of judgment (hands up who has never made a mistake???)
As members of RC we forget, as Arranroots points out, that the Mods are everyday folk like us all and they have other stuff on as well as moderating......... on the other hand the Mods must understand that this site does also hold out a life line/ company/ friendship to many as well as a vital research help
I have had a post deleted but had a nice PM attached others I know have had difference experiences
What is needed is a big intake of breath and consideration from all sides ...... If am offended by something I either don't go back there or make a comment (hey I am an adult ok ok I don't always behave like one  ), if someone is going to interfer with what I have written then I would expect a courteous PM ...... seems simple to me 
The key to this is consideration for others/ effective communication & less knee jerk reactions (please)
I would like RC to continue as it has done...... also I would welcome a comment from Sarah & /or Trystan regarding this
Cal 
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Bigg - Sheppey and West Ham Dodd - Waverton/Doddleston Cheshire Ingram - Dorset, London, Morlaix/Brest, Australia, California Kerfoot - Warrington, Pemberton, St Asaph McKinneley - Northern Ireland, Liverpool Marshall - Midlothian, Cheshire Morrish-Chelsea Shiel - Melrose Woodhall- Liverpool, Shropshire/Staffordshire Dagliesh- Melrose Stevenson - Melrose Smith & Jones!! Scotland & Wales http://fai-mygrandad.blogspot.com/ |
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julianb
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1439
Portrait of the genealogist as a young man
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Thanks to all who have contributed so far.
Very reasoned discussion, and some really useful insights from Arranroots and Boongie Pam about what a moderator has to handle.
The humble rootschatters (Thanks Kerry, Lydart and Cal) are keen on two way communications with our Moderators.
I look forward to more contributions from Rootschatters in different timezones 
JULIAN
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Essex - Carter, Danns, Mason, Middleditch, Pond, Poole, Rose, Sorrell, Surry, Theobald Hunts - Danns Kent - Luetchford Nottinghamshire - Baker Suffolk - Rose Surrey - Baker, Bedel, Bransden, Carter, Coleman, Gibbs, Luetchford, Quinton Sussex - Gibbs, Langridge Wiltshire - Brice, Rumble Rootschatters fh websites - http://www.rootschat.com/links/04lg/ Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ |
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Cal241
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1169
her father scares me so Mat is back with her Butt!
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Julian
I think those who have been upset (etc) should post here too... but constructive!
Better out than in.... in my book
It should be aired
Cal
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Bigg - Sheppey and West Ham Dodd - Waverton/Doddleston Cheshire Ingram - Dorset, London, Morlaix/Brest, Australia, California Kerfoot - Warrington, Pemberton, St Asaph McKinneley - Northern Ireland, Liverpool Marshall - Midlothian, Cheshire Morrish-Chelsea Shiel - Melrose Woodhall- Liverpool, Shropshire/Staffordshire Dagliesh- Melrose Stevenson - Melrose Smith & Jones!! Scotland & Wales http://fai-mygrandad.blogspot.com/ |
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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Cal,
I agree. As long as the discussion does not resort to specifics regarding threads or people. This will trigger me to edit the thread. As previously said, specifics should be taken to the people in question.
Julian,
Your phrase "humble rootschatters" is interesting. It serves to encourage an Us and Them feeling. I have less experience, less knowledge about FH, narrower FH skill base than most of the members- if anyone is a humble rootschatter - it is me.
Ok so I get to move posts out of offer boards into requests when required.
Again, happy to take PMs on the matter.
Pam
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
~~~~~~~~~~~
Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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Boongie Pam
Global Moderator
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2497
Pa is Scottish, Ma is Welsh, Nose is Roamin'
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Kerryb,
some are even still on the boards that offend me or amaze me that they have been missed
Please use the report to moderator function or let us know. We cannot read every post, it is physically impossible.
Thanks,
Pam
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright
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Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier
Currently offline due to work reasons- sorry for the silence!
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indiapaleale
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1401
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Hi Everyone,
I'm from a different time zone...far...far...away!
This is my 2 pennyworth:
Rootschat is a private web site that Trystan and Sarah have been kind enough to build for the pleasure of us dead people fanatics ...errr genealogy researchers. The moderators have been asked to kindly keep their eye on the boards for infractions that may offend...and to take care of general housekeeping. In my opinion, the mods do a bang up job.
As with any open internet board, there are going to be some things that offend some people.....I am not offended by dirty words...or innuendos...in fact...I was a sailor in a previous life! However, there are a few things that have made me cringe because I know that this is the net and can be seen by anyone...even my own grandchildren.
I believe that if a post...or thread disappears......OH WELL! It must have upset someone..or it must have been out of bounds.
Do the mods need to notify every one of the infraction on the thread?...NO......the fact that the thread is gone is enough to let us know that someone was hurt or offended...and that is good enough for me. If I need to know why the post was deleted I can send a mod a PM and ask for an explanation.....but I don't blame them if the response is:
"Because I'm the Mother."....(or Father)
Indi....who thinks that TOT should be buried along with Ephraim Bathurst...wherever he is!
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Springbok
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 945
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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What an interesting discussion!
I have always been so impressed by the high standard of Moderating on Rootschat.
Of course we have all grown up having certain things which offend us.(sometimes age related) and as Boogie Pam says there is the function to report , and that must create a dilemma for Moderators in itself.
The worst site which I use is a Media one which has numerous subjects,including genealogy.To get ones first posting accepted, one may wait and keep posting for many days before it appears.
After that it seems that (unless one complains) anything goes.
Whilst I normally just look to see what comments have been made regarding a certain programme, often many threads deteriorate into thinly veiled near obscene postings.
The same thing happens even on subjects such as art. genealogy and probably all the rest of a vast number of subjects.none of which are actively moderated unless a complaint is registered.
I did this (for the one and only time last week) when a posting referred to a character and and a Decameron Type sexual action. My objection was noted and the e-mail reply stated that the Moderators found that there was nothing objectionable.
I am not a prude and have lived(an still do) in the company of seamen and am not easily offended but somehow it seems that some pathetic contributers seem to feel that they have an anonymity and can indulge their baser fantasies.
Spring
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Dorset: Ackerman,Bungey,Bunter Chant,Hyle
Islington:Bedford, Eaton,Wilkins
Beds,Fulham: Brazier
Shoreditch: Burton,Coverdale
Essex ,Clerkenwell:Craswell,Cresswell
St.Lukes Middx:Doughty, Dunkley
Andover/IOW/Fulham:Gasser
Fulham: Neal
Bucks:Putnam,Wingrove
Bullwell.Notts:Wilkinson
Clerkenwell/Islington:Wyllie
Herts/ Tottenham/Walthamstow:Young
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trish251
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9162
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I really believe Julian should run for Prime Minister (or President). He has a wonderful method of resolving problems without agro & the world would be a better place if this happened more often. I fear I do not have these skills & many moons ago I was upset by a thread being (I think) locked rather than deleted, but in hindsight it resolved any further issues that may have arisen.
My personal view is, if a thread is gone - we mere mortals have to accept it - or stop posting. I tried the latter a couple of times but the interest in genealogy brought me back
I have seen other forums where the comments/attacks become very bitter and personal - this has not obviously happened on RC - the comments on this thread tell us why.
Being interested in things past perhaps the presentation by Lord Moulton on "Law and Manners" - obedience to the unenforceable - explains why it is difficult to have a list of guidelines that cover all the possibilities
http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/13/jun95/silber.htm
Trish
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Tephra
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2755
Duc, sequi, aut fuge!
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I'm not going to go into the where's and why-fors of individual threads - or posts - being deleted. I'm not going to comment on the busy lives moderators have outside RC, we all know about the difficulty they face and appreciate the time and effort they put into looking after the individual boards on RC.
BUT.
It really comes down to percentages. There are over 40.000 members of RootsChat. How many of those 40.000 are active. How many of those who are active use the Lighter Side board and how many use the Totally Of Topic board. What's the percentage of people who put in complaints regarding a thread ( for whatever reason) to the amount of people contributing to that particular thread.
If there are 20 people contributing and there's one complaint made, for me majority rules . If there are 3 people contributing and 20 complaints, again the majority rules. What offends me, will probably not offend another and vice versa. Remember, we as individuals have the power to read or not read the subject matter. It's not compulsory to read each and every thread posted.
It's been noted there are youngsters who are members of RC, yes there are, but does that mean we have to bring ourselves down to a 12 year olds level of understanding before we post on a subject? If we do that, many posts will simply not be presented as it's impossible to know if the 12 year old in question is a worldly wise one or a shy retiring one unfamiliar with the workings of an adults sense of humour. This is so difficult a question, I honestly don't believe there is an answer to it.
Ultimately, it boils down to the individual and what offends or upsets them. We're all different and we all have different opinions on what is right or wrong, humorous, obscene or simply objectionable. And the moderators are NEVER going to please everybody simply because of that difference in us.
May I offer two simple solutions the moderators could use which would cut down on personal PM'ing and the need for explanations going out to all and sundry.
1. If a thread is deemed to be objectionable (for whatever reason) and locked, a PM is sent to the originator of that thread with a full explanation as to why it has been locked. A short message on the bottom of the thread could say it has been locked and all queries should be sent to the poster - not the moderator. That would cut down on a mods need to PM each and every poster to that thread with an explanation. Then it's up to the originator to explain to whoever contacts them the reason behind the locked topic. In the event a thread is deleted and not simply locked, the title should remain on the boards with a message from the deleting mod giving an explanation and again directing all queries to the original poster.
2. When a complaint or complaints are received by a mod, I recommend they look at the total number of complaints versus the total number of posters - the percentages. Then they can act accordingly. I certainly don't believe it should be simply up to the moderator to lock or delete a topic based on their own personal opinion of that topic however wrong they feel it is. That is borderline censorship.
I'm fully aware not everybody will agree with what I've said, but that's what living in a democracy is all about. We can have our own opinions on a subject and we can air those opinions in a civilised manner . . ... . . . .. and I'll now get off my soapbox.
Barbara
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Onley/Only/Olney In Islington.
Abbott In Islington
Wallwork In Bolton and Walkden
Lamb In Bolton and Ireland
Grundy In Bolton
Blackledge In Bolton
Osbaldeston ?? ??
Barnett in Islington
Binyon in Islington
Kitchen in Bolton
Parker in Bolton
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