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Topic: Jedburgh Baptisms - look up please (Read 1086 times)
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Hello,
Was hoping someone could look up Jedburgh baptisms between 1801 and about 1820 for this family:
James Rutherford and Helen/Nelly Elliot - James is a farmer.
I have the following children already:
Ann Rutherford bap 25 Oct 1791 Birdhope Craig, Northumberland
Mary Rutherford bap 28 Mar 1793 Birdhope Craig, Northumberland
John Rutherford bap 8 Dec 1794 Birdhope Craig, Northumberland
Thomas Rutherford bap 4 Sept 1798 Birdhope Craig, Northumberland
George Rutherford bap 24 Aug 1799 Jedburgh
Andrew Hugan Rutherford bap 5 Nov 1801 Jedburgh
But I know that they also had 6 more children:
Adam Rutherford abt 1802?
James Rutherford abt 1805/06
Robert Rutherford
Alexander Rutherford
William Rutherford abt 1815/1816
Henry Rutherford abt 1818/1819
Any help would be appreciated 
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Thanks Sylvia,
Not my lot, but an interesting read all the same 
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Unfortunately not
My Andrew Hugan Rutherford (bap 1801 Jedburgh) married Betsey Brodie and went to New York where he died in 1891 in Gouverner, NY.
But it seems that Rutherford Elliott matches were pretty common down there by the looks of things!
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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BettyTbull
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jenny,
I saw your post about the Rutherfords. Ann Rutherford (Oct 10 1791 Birdhope Craig) is my husband's (Wallace Rutherford Turnbull II) ggg grandmother. She married John Turnbull and they immigrated to Canada in 1824. I have different parents for her. I am pretty sure of mine but am curious as to how you came up with yours.
The ones I have are James and Nellie (Eleanor Potts) Rutherford. Her grandparents were William and Mary Potts of Elsdon, Northumberland.
It looks like you have tied the Rutherfords as to having returned to Scotland and Jedburgh where they originated. Do you have documentation of this?
I am off to Scotland on Tuesday for 10 but would be happy to exchange information when I return.
Thanks for any input you can give.
Betty
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Hi Betty,
How lovely to hear from another Rutherford researcher!
I came up with the parents below (James Rutherford and Helen Elliot) from Thomas Rutherford's (b. 1798) death certificate. He married Jane Sutherland in Berriedale, Caithness where he was a shepherd after the clearances. They had 10 children and he died in Ayr in 1879 where he was still farming sheep.
I have been in touch with descendants of this gentleman (Helen Oliver and Bronwyn Williams) they have done a great deal of research and I can share their information with you if you PM me.
Bronwyn particuarly was in possession of notes from her aunt I think that mention all of the children and tid bits about them. As it turns out I had no record of what happened to Ann (b. 1791), so was most excited to see she appears to have emigrated to Canada. Do you have records of this? Where did you get Eleanor Potts from?
The notes from Bronwyn's aunt recorded that James and Nellie/Helen went to Canada first where Nelly died of Cholera in abt 1832 then the family moved to Gouverneur, St Lawrence, New York.
Of the children we have records of Mary, John, Andrew Hugan, James, William and possibly Henry too emigrating with their family to NY state. I have graves and census records if you would like.
Thomas stayed in Scotland as I mentioned but his son Thomas went to America and died in the American Civil War in 1865. George went to America but returned to Scotland and settled in the Minto area in Roxburgh.
The other children we had no record of. I was particularly interested in the son Robert as he is the claimed father of my illegitimate ancestor James Rutherford born in Caithness in abt 1837. His mother was Jane Sutherland's sister Elizabeth.
The only record of any of the Rutherford's who went to NY returning to Scotland was George, whose son James was born in America in abt 1826, all his other children were born in Scotland.
Happy to exchange info 
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Just checked the Baptisms to refresh my memory....
Ann Rutherford 1791 - parents James Rutherford & Nelly (Birdhope Craig)
Mary Rutherford 1793 - parents James Rutherford & Nelly (Birdhope Craig)
John Rutherford 1794 - parents James Rutherford & Nelly (Birdhope Craig)
Thomas Rutherford 1798 - parents James Rutherford & Nelly (Birdhope Craig)
George Rutherford 1799 - parents James Rutherford & Nellie Elliot (Jedburgh)
Andrew Hugan Rutherford 1801 - parents James Rutherford & Nellie Elliot (Jedburgh)
No record of the younger Rutherford's. With Thomas' death certificate stating his mother was Helen Elliot I had thought that fitted in quite well, Helen and Nelly are often interchangable and with Nellie Elliot recorded on the Jedburgh baptisms, it confirmed it for me.
George Rutherford's death certificate in 1862 states parents - James Rutherford and Helen Elliot also.
Was Nelly Potts on Ann's death certificate?
Perplexing.....
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Hi Betty,
Just checked the IGI for James Rutherford and Eleanor Potts and there is a marriage in 1775 in Elsdon, Northumberland, is that a bit early for the parents of Ann in 1791 especially as they were still having children in the 1800's??
Do you have other children to Nelly and James prior to Ann?
Jenny
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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BettyTbull
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I am attaching a record from a man in Australia - We had knowledge of only Ann, Mary and John. Certainly it doesn't seem likely that Nellie would be having children into her 50s. (We also have passed along through generations that there was an Eleanor in the family as a maternal grandmother - so this all seemed to fit.
Ann's death certificate only states one of her son's names as a witness - it is from Canada. She died Oct 9 1877 in Ontario.
Do you have a marriage certificate for James and Helen Rutherford - were they married in Scotland or Northumberland?
Appreciate the communication back and forth.
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Betty how did you find out that your Ann Rutherford was baptised in 1791 in Birdhope Craig, Northumberland? Does her death certificate have a birthplace or age on it? She married John Turnbull in 1818 in Falstones, and if she was born in 1791 she would have been 27 years old, not unreasonable but most women back then married much earlier....just a query.
I will give you my reasons for having James Rutherford and Helen (Nelly) Elliot as the parents for my brood of Rutherford's, so you can see my reasoning.
Written family information from Bronwyn's great great aunt, gave us the 12 names and some biographical information about them. In the notes it mentions that most of the family went to America and this started us looking.
Two baptisms show parents as James Rutherford and Nellie Elliot in Jedburgh. One of these is George Rutherford (baptised 1799) his death certificate confirms that his parents were James Rutherford and Helen Elliot. The other Jedburgh baptism is Andrew Hugan Rutherford in 1801, the witness at the baptism is John Rutherford, gardener, Monteviot, Roxburgh.
Andrew Hugan Rutherford can be found in the US census in 1850, 1860, 1870 and 1880 as a farmer in Gouverneur, St Lawrence county, New York State. He is buried in the Riverside Cemetery Gouverneur, along with several of his brothers and his father James Rutherford.
James Rutherford's headstone in the Gouverneur Cemetery gives birth and death dates of 1768-1846 (I can send you a photograph of the headstone if you would like). This differs with your data giving James' birth much earlier. I have not as yet found a marriage for James Rutherford and Helen (Nellie) Elliot but think it would be about 1790 in Northumberland as James would have been about 22 then. I have found a baptism for James in 1768 though.
It shows James Rutherford being baptised in Crailing, Roxburgh on 25th April 1768. His parents are shown as John Rutherford of Mount Tiviot and Mary Clerk. I believe this to be the same John Rutherford of Monteviot (gardener) who witnessed Andrew Hugan Rutherford's baptism in 1801. This would be Andrew Hugan Rutherford's grandfather. I have a marriage for John Rutherford and Mary Clark on 11th February 1759 in Crailing, Roxburgh which fits nicely with James' baptism in 1768.
As I have mentioned before Thomas Rutherford's death certificate gives his parents as James Rutherford and Helen Elliot also. In all his census returns he is born abt 1798 and shows as being born in England, sometimes it states Northumberlandshire. The only matching baptism is the one mentioned in Birhope Craig, Northumberland to James and Nelly.
The other children to this couple in Birdhope Craig (with the exception of Ann) all show up in St Lawrence County, New York State.
Mary Rutherford married Thomas Patton in 1818 in St Boswells, Roxburgh and they had 6 children in St Boswells before leaving for America where they had at least 2 more in NY. Mary died in 1877 in New York State.
John Rutherford married Janet (Jeanette) and had at least two children in NY state. He was a farmer and died in 1880 and is buried in Gouverneur, NY State.
To tie Thomas even further to this NY family his son Thomas Rutherford (b 1834) died in battle in 1865 in the American Civil War, I feel that he went to America to his aunts and uncles. George also ties to the American Rutherford's by his son James being born in New York State in 1825. This James also married into the Elliot clan, his wife Isabella Elliot was born in Jedburgh to Thomas Elliot of Nesbit, Roxburgh. Nesbit is very close to Monteviot and Jedburgh, I have visited all three places when I was in Scotland.
I have not been able to go back from Helen (Nelly) Elliot as yet, though I would think she would be born abt 1768-1772. I am also thinking that she came from Roxburghshire, but have nothing concrete, that is just a hunch 
Let me know what you think?
Jenny
P.S. Enjoy Scotland, I lived there for 2 years and I miss it terribly!!
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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BettyTbull
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Jen,
So sorry that it took me so long to get back to you. I have been doing a lot of researching on the family and think that you are correct that your Ann Rutherford is not ours. We have determined that ours was born in 1799 and are still looking. Thanks for taking the time to respond and help me out!
Betty
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JenClark
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 925
Exhausted yet content!
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Hi Betty,
No worries, Rutherford is a pretty common name in the borders region, good luck with the search
It has taken me over 10 years to find the information on my Rutherford's, they have been a great challenge!! I hope you don't have to wait that long too
Jenny
P.S - I hope you enjoyed Scotland!
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Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill
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Clawsywp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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hi
I have a connection to that George Rutherford I beleive.
One of my gg aunties is listed on the 1871 cenus as living with a George rutherford, Sheriff at the scaurs, jedburgh
I found his testament he died in 1877, well i beleive its the same man, living at the scaurs and a sheriff and bank agent.
i figure since he was on the 1871 jedburgh cenus listed as being 70 then he was born around 1800 cause cenus is often out a bit.
i found a george rutherford in jedburgh born 1799 which would fit him as being near 70. the only one in jedburgh born approx 1800 is the one i found
george william george 1799, parents the same as you listed.JAMES RUTHERFORD/NELLY ELLIOT
i think this is the same George well highly probable
on the 1871 cenus he is listed as having a christina a rutherford (i beleive she is christina archibald) living with him, listed as Grt Neice.
Christinas father is a thomas somerville rutherford, her grand father is william rutherford. i do not know any further as yet. but from williams childrens names i beleive there is an ann oliver and an archibald douglasand an andrew from williams side. (as williams other children have names from his wifes side and i know the wifes side going back a far bit)
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Clawsywp
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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oh also
i looked at the 1851 cenus, it shows him as 51 living at the scaurs, being a sheriff clerk and bank agent.
with him there are two people who are not servants and its really hard to read but it looks like one is a short name starts with A and a longer name starts with M. hard to read though i cant see what their relation is to him. i dont think it is son
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James_Rutherford_parents.jpg