golfer
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born 1797 died 17 june 1860. clerk (coal weigher) for clackmannan coal company. parents thomas hall and jane malcolm. looking for wife margaret's family name and more info on their children. son robert bruce (master mariner) relocated to durham, england; son francis possibly relocated to canada from salsburgh lanarkshire; son john probably continued to remain in clackmannan.
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Hannah29
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Golfer
In the OPRs for Clackmannan there are 3 marriages for John Halls whose wives' forenames were Margaret. They are:
1. John Hall and Margaret McArthur. The entry says 'John Hall private in the Stirlingshire Militia and Margaret McArthur here proclaimed and married. 18 February 1808.'
2. John Hall and Margaret McNaughton both here proclaimed and married. 26 March 1820'
3. John Hall and Margaret McDiarmid both here proclaimed 24 October 1824.'
A Francis Hall was baptised on 24 February 1824. The entry says ' John Hall s maker and Margaret McArthure had a lawful son B Francis'. I'd guess 's maker' is shoe maker.
For Robert, the entry says ' John Hall and Margaret McArthur had a lawful son baptised Robert'. That was on 18 October 1826.
Hannah
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Hannah29
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P S
No sign of a John in the index.
Hannah
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golfer
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Hannah. Thank you very much for your efforts. I am finding so many John, Margaret and Francis Halls in and around Clackmannan. I don't think your three Margaret's are connected. Frustrating. The 1841 Clackmannan census identifies parents John and Margaret Hall, children Francis (b. 1829) and Robert Bruce (b. 1833). My gggrandfather Francis Hall was born 1829 Clackmannan and his Canadian death registration named his father as John. I suspect Margaret's family name is Thomson b. abt 1795 but cannot verify this. Unfortunately neither Francis' or John's death certificates names a mother or wife. Informant on John's death certicate was a son named John. Cheers, Golfer.
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joekar
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hi pal,
1841 census- town of clackmannan
john...age 43...coal weigher
margaret...age 46
francis...age 12
robert b...age 8
1851 census- high street, clackmannan
john...age 53...coal weigher
margaret...age 56...born kinnoul, perth
1851 census- 18 salsburgh, shotts (lodging with thomas marshall)
francis...age 21...shoe-maker
1861 census- 24 high street, clackmannan
margaret...age 63...pauper...born dunning perth
wonder who registered her death in 1868 clackmannan?
robert married sarah hood 3rd quarter 1859 sunderland
1861 census- 26 laurence street, bishop wearmouth
robert...age 28...miner
sarah...age 27
1871 census- canada
francis....shoe-maker
1871 census- bishop wearmouth
sarah...age 38...mariner's wife
mary j...age 9
john j...age 8
margaret a...age 5
catherine patterson...visitor...age 42
john patterson...visitor...age 10
1881 census- 8 bramwell street, bishop wearmouth
robert...age 48...master mariner
sarah...age 48
mary...age 19
margaret...age 15
john patterson...nephew...age 20...joiner's apprentice
looks like your robert died 1884 aged 52
1891 census- 8 bramwell st, bishop wearmouth
sarah...age 57...widow
mary...age 29
margaret...age 25
1901 census- jackson street, bishop wearmouth
sarah...age 68
mary...age 38
margaret...age 34
winifred...daughter-in-law...age 20...born sandhurst kent
Joe
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helping wherever possible
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golfer
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Thanx Joe. Questions: Is 1851 census Margaret(Kinnoul) and the 1861 Margaret (Dunning) the same person? Where did you find her death of 1868? Do you know her maiden name? Where did you find Robert's death of 1884? Hope I'm not asking too much. Cheers, Ray.
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patvp1
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Hi Golfer - Not sure that this is of any help, am also looking for Francis Hall bap 16 Oct 1830 Clacks..
His parents were Thomas Hall and Christian Moir, they were married 06 Dec 1818 Clacks.. children were.
James 1825 , Francis 1830, Christian 1821, Edward 1823, Edward 1828 (my g/g/grandfather) Jean 1832 and Thomas 1819. All born Clacks. Like u have come to a dead end with Francis, will just have another look at my files. Patvp
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patvp1
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Hi - just checked .. Thomas Hall and Jean Malcolm married 19 Dec 1794..children Thomas 1795, John 1797, Janet 1799.
Confusin ain't it .LOL looks as tho'we may be connected in some way, if u send me your e.mail adds will try and sort it out..regards Patvp
usual story came on here to query something else and got side tracked...
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patvp1
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Hi Golfer -
Death certificate for
Margaret Hall 12 Mar 1868.
Widower of John Hall Coal (not sure cannot decipher)
Age 72
Parents - Thomas McNaughton Gardener deceased
Anne McNaughton m.s. (could be Smith) deceased
Death of old age no regular medical check.
Informant John Hall ,son present
GRO 466/00 0017
Found a marriage for the couple 26 Mar 1820 at Clackmannan
GRO 466/0070 0004
Now the hard part -
According to GRO children for this marriage are
Ann 3 Apr 1823, James McNaughton Hall 16 Jan 1839, Malcolm 13 Mar 1836, Thomas 24 Aug 1820, I cannot find Francis, Robert Bruce nor John, maybe somehow or other they were not registered.
If I can help any more let me know on pat26438@hotmail.com
regards Pat
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patvp1
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Golfer - also forgot to add Thomas Hall and Jean Malcolm also had another three children
Margaret 1807, Francis 1810, William 1813.
Cheers Pat
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golfer
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Hi Pat. I wish your info on Mgt Hall's (McNaughton) death 1868 and marriage to John Hall 1820 was indeed MY John and Margaret. However, verification is still lacking. As you can attest to through your own research there are many John and Margaret Hall's and Francis Hall's in and about Clackmannan. Just the fact that Thomas Hall/Jean Malcom had 3 sons (Thomas, James, John) who have all been put forward as my Francis Hall's father has made my research very frustrating. Francis' death in Canada identifies his father's name as JOHN and the 1841 Clackmannan census lists him in John/Margaret's household (b. 1829). Yet another Francis (b. abt 1829) appears in Christian Hall's (Moir) household in the 1841 Tillicoultry census and still another recording has him c. 16 Oct 1830 to parents James Hall/Christian Moir. Whew! I believe but w/o verification that Francis Hall's father is John Hall b. 1797 and his mother is Margaret Thomson b. 1795 Kinnoul, Perth. As to your claim that Thomas Hall/Christian Moir had two separate sons named Edward is still open for debate. I feel that there was only one son BORN 22 Jun 1823 and that his CHRISTENING date occurred later (5 Feb 1828). Cheers, Golfer.
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patvp1
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Hi Golfer Phew is right - o.k.
There were two Edward Hall's
22/06/1823 Thomas Hall Christian Moir GRO Data 466/0060 0055.
05/02/1828 ..same parents GRO 466/0060 0119
Probably the first Edward died and they re-used the name which was quite common on Scottish families.
The only way I can help with Francis is to copy these facts out they are all taken from Scotland's People government records, I do have all the births for Hall's in Clack's printed out as have to refer time and time again so it made it much easier.
10/7/1836 Robert Hall and Jane Simpson
21/5/1854 John Hall and Jane Chalmers
20/3/1720 John Hall and Agnes Drysdale
8/4/1762 Francis Hall - Bessie Hall
15/7/1781 Robert Hall - Katharine Higgins
10/11/1782 John Hall - Agnes Finlyson
16/4/1786 Thomas Hall - Mary Miller
23/3/1788 Francis Hall - Isobel Morris
13/12/1792 James Hall - Jean Russell
8/9/1799 William Hall - Mary Duncan
11/5/1810 Thomas Hall - Jean Malcolm
19/9/1813 Francis Hall - Christian Christie
20/9/1817 James Hall - Janet Dow
20/2/1824 John Hall - Margaret McArthure
13/11/1824 Francis Hall - gnes Muir
16/10/1830 James Hall - Christian Moir
17/1/1849 William Hall - Jean McLaren
Can provide the GRO Data number if required so you can apply for certificate.
Thomas and Jean Malcolm had nine children in all
1805 Elizabeth and James (twins)
1810 Francis, 1799 Janet, 1802 Jean, 1797 John, 1807 Margaret, 1795 Thomas, 1813 William
That is according to GRO'S usually I check with both IGI and then GRO and compare, and am finding that IGI records are inclined to be a bit ïffy...
Hope this helps any queries let me know...Pat
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patvp1
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Hi Golfer - talking about ïffy"decided to check original entry for Francis 1830 which shows on the GRO index as James Hall and Christian Moir..thank god I did..as handwritten record shows father as Thomas Hall someone made a boo-boo..well thats sorted me out how about you..Pat
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patvp1
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Hi Ray - because of that info was able to track them down in 1851 Christian Moir had reverted to her maiden name and they are in Fife.
Christian Moir age 55 birth year abt 1796 born Clackmannan
civil parish - Carnock. Town - Forth Iron Works. County - Fife.
Address - 35 Blair Row
Others
Francis Hall Clackmannan Age 26 Son
Janet Hall Coalsnaughton Dau Age 1
William Meikljohn Clackmannan Nephew
Cheers Pat
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