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Topic: ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden (Read 5100 times)
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wdurham
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If you are watching the Pfau thread, John, you will see that Mickledore and I have a 99% probable conection via our great grannies, Annie and Sophia Chandler.
The likelihood of both Annie Chandlers having aunties and sisters with identical names is very slim.....
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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wdurham
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LOL!
Seriously, thanks a bunch! I must put the respective mothers of Mickledore and me in touch - they will gossip for hours.
I have dropped a couple of message to G-R people re: our mysterious William Armstrong allegedly born in Ravensden. One kind soul did reply, but also had William as the son of Thomas and Phoebe of UG, so no further forward on that front.
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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bedfordshire boy
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I've seen the online tree that has that parent link on it, and it looks to me as though it could have been put in on the basis that it was the only entry on the IGI that fits. The same tree has one of my names on it where the couple lived in Henlow Beds but the marriage wasn't there, and it has a marriage in Northants, on the basis, as the tree owner told me, it was the only one that fitted. The fact is that a little bit of research would have found the Northants' happy couple producing children in the husband's home parish, and then both of them dying, and would have ruled out that particular marriage
Quantity, not quality, seems to be the order of the day with that tree. Some of it is good though. The bit that was lifted from my online tree!
That was good recollection linking the two threads John. The writer of that bit you quoted from the Pfau thread couldn't remember writing it, let alone recall the names in it!
Regards
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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johnP-bedford
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where have you gone Joe di Maggio ?
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LOL!
I have dropped a couple of message to G-R people re: our mysterious William Armstrong allegedly born in Ravensden.
Wendy, I did the same to additional 5 people on Monday - but had no reply; I already have 3 contacts' trees with the Upper Gravenhurst parents.
I'm really pleased my hunch has produced lots of memories.
David, There are certain people who only gather information while I do data mining.
Yes sharing online trees will have a failing if the information is wrong. If more than one tree has the same error, then anyone new viewing all these trees will assume (like sadly I did) that the information is correct. BUT it still might be !
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukPartridge - North Beds; Peterborough Bishop - Bedford; Hunts, Hemingford Grey Allen - Hunts, Hemingford Abbotts Clement - Croydon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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wdurham
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I didn't even bother with those who had the UG birthplace, John - only those that listed William as born in Ravensden. I thought they might have something I didn't - but no luck thus far.
The other consideration, of course, is that a lot of G-R trees have come from Ancestral files on the IGI or trees on Ancestry which are also based on the IGI Ancestral files. Error compounds error. As John says, if more than two people have the same info, you tend to assume it's likely to be correct. But if those two people got their info from the same source, and that source was an error to start with.....
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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wdurham
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Posts: 196
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You'll be delighted to know, JP, that Mickledore and I have established that our mothers are indeed second cousins, as their grannies were sisters - Annie (known in the family as Nance or Nancy) and Sophia Chandler, daughters of George Chandler and Elizabeth Armstrong.
Sophia, incidentally, is pronounced Sof-eye-a. She used to take great exception to Sof-ee-a, and would stick nose in the air and point out that it was a place in Bulgaria rather than her name.
We have now taken the family gossip to private messaging to avoid boring the pants of everyone else!
However, one question - does anyone know if an adoption can be discovered in any way? We believe from family lore that Louisa Chandler adopted an Emmeline Morris during the early 1900's, and would like some kind of confirmation. I doubt very much that such data is available - but does anyone know better?
Thanks so much, JP - and David - for all your help. And it probably isn't done with yet....!
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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bedfordshire boy
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Legal adoptions didn't start until 1926, and any adoptions prior to that were purely informal affairs, so I think your doubts are justified!
Regards
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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johnP-bedford
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where have you gone Joe di Maggio ?
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Wendy, That's great news - do you and Mickledore live close enough to have a family reunion.
Wendy & David, I'm planning to go to Bedford tomorrow & the library to look up PRs to 1812 for Ravensden, Wilden, Upper Gravenhurst, anywhere else - can I have a quick summary of anything outstanding needing looking up.
Also if I can make it, on Monday as Beds Archive stay open until 7:00pm, I can have about hour & a half checking PRs from 1812 onwards - again put down your requests.
Cheers John
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukPartridge - North Beds; Peterborough Bishop - Bedford; Hunts, Hemingford Grey Allen - Hunts, Hemingford Abbotts Clement - Croydon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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wdurham
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John, you are a scholar and a gentleman.
The BIG tricky one is William Armstrong b about 1791 in Ravensden, (NOT Upper Gravenhurst) but I guess you want to look him up for yourself anyway!
He doesn't apear in the Ravensden batch on the IGI as a child of John Armstrong and Sarah, but that is not necessarily meaningful, as nor does a Sarah born about 1807 who died in 1810 aged 3 according to the NBI.
Then there is the marriage of John Armstrong Snr b about 1760 and Sarah - but as we don't have a clue where they came from, that's a hard one!
However, Wilhampstead might be a possibility. John Armstrong 1760 turned up in Ravensden in 1787 and Thomas Armstrong 1756 who married Phoebe turned up in Upper Gravensden in or about 1788. There is an IGI entry that places Thomas's birth in UG, but it's a member entry based on his marriage to Phoebe which simply assumes he was born where he married.
John Armstrong and Edy Grange of Houghton Conquest married in HC in 1753. William Armstrong was baptised in Wilhampstead in 1754, son of John and Edith. John Armstrong was baptised in 1761, son of John and Edith. Might they also have had a Thomas b 1756 - he would fit nicely into the gap!
There is a Thomas, but he's baptised in 1766 son of Thomas and Christian Fiddes, so 10 years too young.
John b 1760 named two of his children John and Edith, which is a slim link, but nonetheless it IS a link!
It might be worth checking Wilhamstead and/or Houghton Conquest, to see if there is anything in the PRs which isn't on the IGI.
If you can find anything, I shall be very grateful - this is my direct line, and I am thoroughly stuck.
Best regards
Wendy
PS Another bit of circumstantial stuff - the Chandlers who joined up with the Armstrongs when Elizabeth married George in 1857 were pretty strict Primitive Methodists. They too baptised their children in batches. I wonder if the Armstrongs were too? Maybe their patchy baptism record is simply because they had to wait for a Methodist minister to pass by? And if one didn't, then they just didn't bother with baptism? I have something very similar in Kent, with a Catholic family living in a Protestant parish.
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Logged
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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bedfordshire boy
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Re your PS Wendy; the children were baptised in the established church so it couldn't have been a case of waiting for a methodist minister to float by. But non-conformity must be a possibilty particularly as you know the Chandlers were of that persuasion.
John - my post of 7 May 07.08 has what I think needs checking
Regards
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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johnP-bedford
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where have you gone Joe di Maggio ?
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Hello, Well that didn't reveal anything extra from the PRs up to 1812.
The only Armstrongs at Ravensden are the baptisms of Mary, Edith, Elizabeth, Ann & John that we already know; plus the burial of Sarah age 3 in 1810. All children of John & Sarah. There is no baptism of a William c 1792 or indeed of Sarah 1807. There is no marriage of John to Sarah.
The only Armstrongs in Upper Gravenhurst are the ones we know, children of Thomas & Phoebe Wisson, plus their marriage in 1788. The burials were Sarah in 1797 daughter of Thomas & Phoebe, & William 7 Aug 1807. No confirmation that he was child of Thomas & Phoebe.
No Armstrongs at Wilden prior to 1812.
Wilstead had baptisms of John 1761 & William 1754 to John & Edith Armstrong; and Thomas 1766 & William 1769 to Thomas & Christian Armstrong. Thomas married Christian Fiddes on 19 Apr 1766, & Christian Armstrong burial on 27 Oct 1794. As you say John married Edith at Houghton Conquest in 1753.
No other likely candidates found.
Regards John
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« Last Edit: Saturday 12 May 07 18:49 BST (UK) by johnP-bedford »
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukPartridge - North Beds; Peterborough Bishop - Bedford; Hunts, Hemingford Grey Allen - Hunts, Hemingford Abbotts Clement - Croydon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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wdurham
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Thankyou, John - nothing ventured, nothing learned, and though you didn't find anything we didn't already know, it was worth the effort and I am very grateful.
At least the Wilstead stuff supports the IGI information - again just two Armstrongs, of about the same age, Thomas who married Christian in Wilstead and John who probably married Edith in Houghton Conquest nearby. Some of Thomas's descendants seem to have stayed in Wilstead - there are a lot of baptisms and marriages within his probable line. John and Edith's children don't seem to be in the picture at all, so I guess they moved on.
Re: Ravensden, there is therefore at least one undocumented child, Sarah, b about 1807 and buried in 1810.
UNLESS she was Sarah Ann - there IS a baptism on the IGI for an Ann of John and Sarah in 1807, who was baptised along with a Thomas. As they already had an Ann, who didn't get buried till 1816, this seems a bit odd?
So I guess we just have to take William 1790-1792-ish (depending which census return you look at!) at face value. He said he was born in Ravensden, and never moved more than 3 miles away - first to Wilden and then to Thurleigh. His children have the right names, even though they were common names. If he was born in Ravensden then he is the son of John and Sarah, simply because there is no other option. He either wasn't baptised at all, or got left off somehow! There is even a possibility of other unbaptised children as there is a big gap between Ann in 1791 and Edith in 1798 based on David's BVRI findings re birth years. Previously they had been having a child every second year.
Thanks again for the effort - 
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Logged
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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wdurham
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 196
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Question - is it my connection, or is the IGI unobtainable? I just can't get to it at all now, after having only intermittent availability since last weekend.
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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