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Topic: ARMSTRONGS of Ravensden (Read 5200 times)
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wdurham
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Hi, John - posted this earlier today:
"Re: Ravensden, there is therefore at least one undocumented child, Sarah, b about 1807 and buried in 1810.
UNLESS she was Sarah Ann - there IS a baptism on the IGI for an Ann of John and Sarah in 1807, who was baptised along with a Thomas. As they already had an Ann, who didn't get buried till 1816, this seems a bit odd?"
IGI Batch No: for them both is C148781 covering 1565 - 1875
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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bedfordshire boy
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The other thing you might double check John, are the three 1802 baptisms where the BVRI has the entries dated 1789, 1791 and 1800 - are ages actually shown in the PR?
I've always had doubts about the UG connection. There's no apparent documented link; the census birthplace doesn't support it; and it appears that someone has found the right name at the right time on the IGI and made an enormous unsupported assumption.
The fact that Thomas and Phoebe were the first Armstrongs in UG makes it more likely that the William buried in 1807 was their son born 1792
I can't see a burial or marriage for Ann christened 1807, nor can I find her in a census. Given that her elder sister Ann was still alive in 1807 I'm very suspicious about her name and agree with Wendy that this could be an error in the PR
Did either John or Sarah leave a will?
Regards
David
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« Last Edit: Sunday 13 May 07 07:07 BST (UK) by bedfordshire boy »
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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bedfordshire boy
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Moaning
It's the sheep mentality. What's their evidence, other than they saw it in an online tree so it must be right? The fact that he probably died age 15 seems to have been ignored - these trees that are cobbled together just using the IGI often miss vital information from burials.
So presumably you're going to look at William's two marriages tomorrow to see if they provide any clues? You might get lucky and find the witnesses add something.
I have a nasty feeling that William is going to come down to "on the balance of probabilities he was an unbaptised son of John and Sarah"!
28 here again today - then dropping + rain, but brightening up on Thursday, and hot again next weekend. Looking good for you!
Regards
David
PS Just one more snippet - Thomas Armstrong aged 90 was buried at UG on 2 Sept 1846, and he was in the 1841 age 85 born in county
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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wdurham
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Regarding information from burials, I have found a bit more about the Wilstead lot. I located - and John has confirmed from the PRs - a Thomas Armstrong married to Christian Fiddes, and a John Armstrong married to an Edith, who were producing children in the 1750-1770 period.
Having turned up a burial for a Sarah Armstrong w/o William in Sep 1752, I then found a burial for a William in Sep 1765. And a baptism for Thomas son of William and Sarah, on 21 Apr 1734. These all came from Ancestry's Bedfordshire Parish and Probate records, which has a sizeable chunk of the Wilstead parish records.
The FHO pay-per-view website has what looks like all of the NBI for Bedfordshire, and the burials mentioned above are all there.
So we have a William and a Sarah, who married somewhere, and moved to Wilstead before 1734, possibly with at least one child named John. In 1734 they had a son named Thomas.
Sarah died and was buried 26 Sep 1752. William MAY have died in Sep 1765 - but this burial could have been that of the son of John and Edith b 1754, as no age is given.
Thomas married Christian Fiddes in 1766 - they had two sons, Thomas b 1766 and William b 1769.
John married Edith - perhaps Edy Grange from Houghton Conquest in 1753 - and produced William b 1754 and John b 1760.
I then found two burials in Maulden -
Eddey ARMSTRONG Date 3 Jan 1770 Aged – Place Maulden Description St Mary Denomination Anglican County code BDF
John ARMSTRONG Date 9 Nov 1773 Aged – Place Maulden Description St Mary Denomination Anglican County code BDF
Sadly no age is given to help determine whether these are the parents of John b 1760-ish in Wilstead. They died quite young if they are - both only in their 40s or 50s.
Amongst all the other burials for John Armstrongs, there is really only one that can be linked to John b 1760, son of John and Edith, and that's John Armstrong, buried in Ravensden in 1826 aged 66.
A John Armstrong was buried in Wilstead in 1872 aged 73 - he is most likely to have been the son of William Armstrong and Mary, who began producing children in 1800, with John as their eldest. William could have been either the son of Thomas and Christian or the son of John and Edith. I favour the son of Thomas and Christian, purely because of age!
All highly circumstantial, of course, but worth pursuing...?
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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bedfordshire boy
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I've checked the two Maulden burials against the transcript, and it all says is Eddey wife of John, labourer, and 1773, John labourer
Regards
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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wdurham
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Thanks, David -
At least that confirms that Eddey WAS John's wife, rather than another husky labourer baptised Edward!
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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wdurham
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Posts: 196
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John -
The overseers account book has a population listing for 1831 here:
http://domino.bedfordshire.gov.uk/bedscc/sdcountyrec.nsf/web/thepage/Ravensden+Population+Listing+-+May+1831
This includes just one Armstrong, John Jnr with a household of 3 - 1 adult male and two females. Which fits with wife Jane and first child Sally/Sarah.
I also found the reference to Thomas and John of HC - Thomas is included in the 1722 Beds Pollbook as voting in HC. There are many references to a Thomas Armstrong of this period as being a JP. I discarded him, simply because you had to be pretty important to vote in those days, if I remember rightly, and our lot were all labourers....
However, I have been working this morning with the Beds section of the NBI (as per the Family History Online website) and it seems the Armstrongs were pretty mobile within a confined area. In most places they just arrive, and are almost always the only family in the village. Which makes tracking their movements a bit easier.
Based on where they were buried and where the IGI says they married and begat their children, I have put together a long chain of Armstrongs going back to another John and Sarah who were living in Riseley in the early 1700s. It is TOTALLY circumstantial - not a shred of real proof and based only on commonsense and IGI/NBI matching - but it gives a number of other places to search for Armstrongs.
These places include: Riseley - Wilstead - Cople. There is also one marriage in Haynes in 1799 and a marriage in Puddington in 1729.
I hope you can find a clue as to our mystery William in his marriage records - whilst I am pretty sure he belongs to John and Sarah (if only because there's nobody else he CAN belong to!) it would be nice to have something tangible.
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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bedfordshire boy
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The Haynes marriage is of William Armstrong of Wilshamstead and Mary Warren otp. Per transcript
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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wdurham
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Cheers, David - that confirms one of my links.
The Haynes marriage was indeed of William of Wilshamstead, younger son of Thomas Armstrong and Christian Fiddes.
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Willson & Pell in Faversham, Egerton, Folkestone in Kent
Cornhill in Kent, Devon and Wokingham, Berks
Cadmans & Kings in Isleham, Cambs
Swan, Gregory, Smith & Mingay in the Burrough Green/Westley area of Cambs
Armstrong & Chandler in Bedford
Abbott/Abbit in Witham, Essex
Davies/Davis in Islington & Hackney
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bedfordshire boy
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And the Cople family started with the marriage on 11 Oct 1779 between William Eamstrong
and Mary Robins. No further detail in the transcript unfortunately
Mary Armstrong wife of William was buried on 13 Apr 1801
There's also an entry on A2A
Maulden parish register
OVERSEERS of the Poor, Apprenticeship
FILE - Bond (£20) Wm Batterson of Cople - Cordwainer, to Maulden Church Wardens re apprenticeship of Wm Armstrong. - ref. P31/14/53 - date: 12 Mar 1766
It's possible that the William who married in Cople was from Maulden
David
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukBeds: Cople: Luke/Spencer Everton: Hale Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey Potton: Merrill Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt Hunts: Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn Cambs: Bourn: Bowd Eltisley: Medlock Graveley: Ford/Revell |
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