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Topic: Alexander Thomson (Read 981 times)
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Jeans Girl
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Is there someone who can do a lookup for me please.?
Iam looking for Alexander Thomson who was b 1814 in Falkirk and Married Margaret Graham 20th Nov 1840 in Falkirk.
Would like to know who their parents were if at all possible.
Have looked at scotlands people to no avail also IGI gives me what I have .
i have possible parents of Alexander as John Thomson and Margaret Hardie
but not certain.
I have tried Death certs but Have got two for Alexander both with Margaret Graham as wife.
Any help appreciated.
Margaret.
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MonicaLesl
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Hi Margaret
Just adding a link to your other post on the Clackmannanshire Board so that people don't duplicate on the searches:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,231075.new.html#new
Just a few questions from me  How have you arrived at a birth year of 1814 for Alexander and birth place? From your other post I undestand that you haven't been able to find them on the censuses.
I assume you are following up Robert b. 1842 line (?). From his MC, does it show whether his parents were alive or deceased at the time of his marriage and father Alexander's occupation?
Last question  Have you looked at the OPR entry of the marriage/banns for Alexander and Margaret to check whether it includes any additional info such as fathers' names?
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Jeans Girl
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I have arrived at the 1814 possible birth fron the IGI an entry by someone .
Robert Thomson is on the IGI as well b 19th Oct 1842 in Tillicoultry it is a parish record.
On Roberts Marriage cert
Alexander Thomson Ploughman dec
Margaret Thomson (Graham) dec.
James Hunter Stone Plasterer
Agnes Hunter (Mitchell )dec
Robert married Elizabeth Hunter31st Dec 1869 in St Clement Dundee.
I have Just looked at the Marriage on Scotlands People for Alexander Thomson and Margaret Graham no extra information
They were married 30th Oct 1840 in Falkirk and both of this Parish.
Margaret.
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MonicaLesl
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Hi Margaret
They really are hard to find on the censuses 
What was Robert's occupation on his MC? This is the closest I can see on the 1861 census - the only Robert showing with a Tillicoultry birth place, so happens mother is called Margaret:
Margaret Thomson 60, yarn winder, b. Dunblane, Perthshire
James Thomson 31, weaver, b. Blairlogie
Janet Thomson 33, Shawl Plaiter, b. Blairlogie
Peter Thomson 19, weaver, b. Tillicoultry
Robert Thomson 17, baker, Tillicoultry
Mary Thomson 15, weaver, Tillicoultry
Address: 67 High Street, Address, Tillicoultry
IGI is down at the moment, I can't check whether any of the above children show with a different father to be able to exclude this family.
Regards.
Monica 
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Jeans Girl
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Hi Monica,
I thought it was just me having trouble finding them!
Roberts occupation on marriage cert looks like Mill Greasor or something like that the last word is quite difficult to read.
Elizabeth Hunter was a Mill Worker .
I had looked at the family you have found as well but was unsure .
Regards
Margaret.
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MonicaLesl
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Margaret
I'm also not 100% on the 1861 family given that the entry is the only one that shows to date and there is nothing else to verify it at present.
Have you managed to find Robert and Elizabeth on any census after their marriage in 1869 in Dundee? I can see what looks like 3 children born to them in Dundee on IGI:
1. MARGARET THOMSON Birth: 03 APR 1871 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
2. ROBINA THOMSON Birth: 08 OCT 1872 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
3. JAMES ALEXANDER THOMSON Birth: 1875 Dundee, Angus, Scotland/ Death: 21 DEC 1941
However, although you have a possible birth entry in 1842 in Tillicoultry for a Robert Thomson, there is nothing at present to verify that it is your Robert. You would need a census entry to verify Tillicoultry as his birth place. There is a chance that your Robert was in fact born elsewhere which may be why he is not coming up on the index search under that birth place (apart from that 1861 family). For example there is this entry in the 1871 index in Dundee:
Robert Thomson 25, mill worker, b. Ireland
Elizabeth Thomson 24, b. Aberdeen
Address: Crightons Land Hilln, St Clements Dundee
I'm not sure which line you are following up, have you managed to find that child after their birth in the censuses? Always the possibility that either parent had died prior to the 1881 Census.
Struggling to find anything of substance on the censuses
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Jeans Girl
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Hi Monica,
You have the right family with the children born in Dundee.
I have there birth certs Robert is a Mill Worker on themm all.
Robina died 36th Jun 1874 in Longlands Lane Asylum Dundee.
Robert and Elizabeth were in New Zealand by 1877 when another child named Robina was born.
Robert was sometimes known as Robert H Thomson as the middle name was Hamilton.
Dont know where it comes from but it has come down thru the family.
The only census I have is for Alexander and Margaret in 1841
Sct 1841/282
Place Dundee- Angus
Dist 35
Parish Dundee
Folio 35 pg 3
Thomson Alexander age 50 Outside Census county
Thomson Margaret age 45 Outside Census County
I am trying to follow the Thomson line but the Hunter line is just as valuable.
Have just had a look at Census index on Ancestry and
came up with these.
1861 Parish Tillicoultry ED4 Line 14
Robert Thomson age 17 b 1844 .
Looked at the possibility of being b Ireland
1851 Census address 3 House Todsburn Close Wellgate Dundee
Alex Thomson b Ireland age 37
Margaret Thomson b Ireland age 45
Jane b Ireland age 17
John b Ireland age 15
Mary B Ireland age 13
James b Ireland age 7
Robert b Ireland age 5
Right ages right parents names dont know what the occupation is as it doesnt give it on Ancestry.
Regards
Margaret.
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 09 May 07 04:13 BST (UK) by Jeans Girl »
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MonicaLesl
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Hi Margaret
No wonder I couldn't find any trace of the Robert and Elizabeth in the censuses if they were off by 1877! I'm warming up to the possibility of your Robert possibly being the Irish one
A couple of things I have found when I've been searching around over the last couple of days:
1. The entry you found on Ancestry: 1861 Parish Tillicoultry ED4 Line 14
Robert Thomson age 17 b 1844, I think is the one I posted for the family headed up by a Margaret.
2. I think the entry you found for the Irish family in 1851 is a stronger possibility. From this site www.fdca.org.uk/howff.htm which includes Old Parish Register deaths in Dundee, I have found this entry:
Thomson Alexander/ Burial Date: 09 Jul 1851/ age 48/ place of birth: County of Armagh/ Occupation Weaver/ Cause of Death Typhus fever/ Last residence: Wellgate
This entry may well tie in with the 1851 census family. Address is in the right area as is occupation. The age I am less concerned about given Margaret's age in the 1851 entry shows as 45. Alexander's may have been misindexed.
If this is the right Alexander, then you are in luck as it shows where in Ireland the family may have originated from (not something you would normally be able to find out).
3. If we have the right family, it would look like they came over to Dundee from Ireland after the birth of Robert. You have found them in the 1851 index. I think this then ties in with the entry for a Robert and Elizabeth in 1871. It would be good to find them (at least Robert) in the 1861....
4. What were the death years for the two Margaret Graham/Thomson that you have found to date and where were the deaths?
There's a couple of possibilities for Elizabeth Hunter in the earlier censuses which I will post separately.
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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MonicaLesl
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In respect of Elizabeth Hunter, again if we have the right couple in 1871, this Elizabeth's birth place shows as Aberdeen.
There's only one OPR marriage showing for a couple with her parents' names (but as you know this is never 100% certain as so many went unregistered or the OPRs may have been lost over the years), so happens this is in Aberdeen:
18/06/1841 HUNTER JAMES AGNES MITCHELL/ M Old Machar ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/B00 0170 0268
There is only one death showing on SP for an Agnes Mitchell/Hunter that would fit in age to be Elizabeth's mother. This Agnes died in 1866 (which could fit with the info on Elizabeth's MC that shows mother as deceased) age 44. Unfortunately, she shows as married to [Blank] Hunter, [Blank] for his occupation. This Agnes died in the City Poorhouse so the death was registered by the Governor, so no more clues there. Her parents - George Mitchell and Mary Bow.
1866 HUNTER AGNES MITCHELL 44 ST NICHOLAS ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/01 1022
As with the Thomsons, this family is also not easy to find on the early censuses  . If we have the right marriage for Agnes and James, they just missed the 1841 census, so that leaves only the 1851/61 to try and find the links.
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Jeans Girl
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Hi Monica ,
Many thanks for all the info it is much appreciated.
The two deaths i have for Margaret Thomson ( Graham ) are
3rd May 1873 Parish Of Tillicoultry she was aged 73
her address given as Moss Road Tillicoultry. Parents William Graham Isabella Mitchell.
3rd May 1869 District of St Clement her address is given as 184 Hiltown Dundee. Parents James Graham no mothers name.
There is only one question regarding the Thomson family coming from Ireland Why have I got Robert Hamilton Thomson being born in Tillicoultry 19th Oct 1842 with the correct parents?
In relation to Elizabeth Hunter I think you have found the right ones many thanks for that.
Regards
Margaret
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MonicaLesl
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Hi Margaret
The two death certs that you have found, were there any occupations showing for either Alexander T? The first in Tillicoultry is probably the Margaret who shows in the 1861 family that we found with a Robert age 17, a baker. This death is also after Robert and Elizabeth's marriage at the end of 1869 where Robert's mother Margaret already shows as deceased.
Not sure whether the second Margaret is the same as we found in the Irish family in 1851. Her age in 1851 is showing as 45. The DC in 1869 has that Margaret as age 54 (if I found the right one on the index)....however, the address at death, 184 Hilltown is pretty close to Robert's address in his 1869 MC which shows as 194 Hilltown! You also have the two witnesses, William Graham and Margaret Thomson. Hard to say how they connect although they are both family surnames.
The BIG problem that we are having here is being unable to trace any family group through the BMDs and censuses. Whilst we may have found one possible group in one census, they then 'disappear' from subsequent censuses making it difficult to verify ages etc.
On Elizabeth Hunter, if we do have the right entry for her and Robert in 1871, then his birth place is showing as Irish It may just be a co-incidence on names that an entry shows on IGI for the 1842 birth in Tillicoultry. Robert's age on his MC in 1869 is 23 which then fits the age on the 1871 census entry of 25. This would then give him a birth yr of c. 1846.
Margaret, we are going round and round on this one. I've spent a long time on the census indexes and other than what we have found to date, there's not much more that is connecting at the moment sadly.
Have you managed to find Robert and Elizabeth's DCs in NZ (not sure how much info they contain)? Also, you have a date for their crossing of 1877. Was there any specific info on the manifest as to where they were born?
Regards.
Monica
PS Elizabeth's father James is showing as a Stone Polisher on the 1869 MC. This occupation, like many, will probably have different translations in the censuses etc. Given that he is the only one showing as alive at the time of Elizabeth's marriage, you might want to check on the censuses indexes to see whether you can find him post 1869 (oh I've tried )
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Jeans Girl
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Hi Monica,
You certainly have done the yards on this one for which I am extremely thankful.
Both the death certs for Margaret Garaham have Alexander as a Labourer.
The Margaret Thomson witness on the marriage cert is most likly Roberts sister Margaret although the IGI gives her as being born in Perth 1823?
He had a sister Elizabeth Graham Thomson as well she was b in Falkirk 1843.
I have ordered Roberts death cert I have the death cert foe Elizabeth which gives
Parents James Hunter Agnes Mitchell he was a slater
She was born in Aberdeen and lived in New Zealand for 50Yrs
She died in 1926 age 79
Married Dundee Scotland at age 22 to Robert Hamilton Thomson.
I will search the Census again just in case!
regards
Margaret.
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MonicaLesl
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Did Robert show 'Hamilton' in later years in NZ - it didn't show on his MC. Fingers crossed that his DC provides further clues.
I'm happy to hear that Elizabeth's details confirm an Aberdeen birth place, first proper verification!
Apart from Robina's birth in NZ (named after first Robina), do you have the names of their other children born in NZ. This might help trying to verify some other family names, such as grandparents.
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Jeans Girl
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Hi Monica,
I found James Hunter with Agnes in the Poor house Dundee in 1861, and James Hunter in 1871 .
The other siblings for robert are
John Thomson
Robert Hamilton Thomson
Elizabeth Thomson
David William Thomson.
On all the school entries for the Children he used Robert H Thomson.
Regards
Margaret
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MonicaLesl
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Hi Margaret
For a change we are on line at the same time I did see the 1861 entry today and wondered whether both James and Agnes's ages has mistranscribed (60 and 30). The DC I found for an Agnes Mitchell/Hunter was in the Aberdeen City Poor house in 1866 with that Agnes's age showing as 44. This ties up with her 1822 IGI birth entry to the parents showing on her DC.
Where was the James Hunter 1871 Census entry?
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire. Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll. Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire. Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan. McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland. Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland. ..........and lots of Spanish name interests........ Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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