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Topic: Bucks Quarter Sessions 1833 (Read 1099 times)
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Rochdalian
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Posts: 468
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi Jo, John & Valda
One little request, two nights sleep and two days at work and bingo a fascinating helpful discourse, wow.
Problem is with my friend John Dawes, he is the one who stole the mare, I'm not sure if he made it to VDL at all. In the papers I obtained from Tassie Archives he has a Conduct Record although the only words written on it are 'Jumped overboard at Plymouth'. Now if he had been rescued I would have thought there would have been more written about him. He also appears on the Indents but I don't know if that was written in England prior to departure. What I'm trying to establish is his birth date or age at trial to compare with the birth year of 1813 given on the Tassie Pioneers index for the John Dawes that married Rebecca Webb. I can find no other John Dawes in VDL at the time.
Cheers
Bob
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Lincslass
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 377
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I nipped into the RO today. The calendars of prisoners are available from 1789 to the 20th C. Thank goodness there was someone there today who knew exactly where to look. Obviously the person last time was not so clued up.
Regrettably, there are two kinds, one which gives all kinds of details and one which just gives the crime and punishment. The one with all the details was only available for Epiphany 1833 and Epiphany 1834 with the other Qtrs in between missing. So no great details such as age etc. But John Knight was listed on the simple list of Crime and Punishment. They appear to be listed in order of severity from bastardy, felony, larceny and the most serious crime was Horse stealing. Of which there were three in that Qtr, including your John. All transported for life.
I did not have a reader today but checked that the Bucks Herald and Gazette are on film and they are. So hopefully as horse stealing was such a severe crime, it may well have been in the papers. I am going again on Friday.
I read the 5 page notation in the QS. Seems he stole the horse on 25th Sept and stabled it at the local ale house. Then tried to ride it to London but was caught by the owners son. When asked where he was from, he said London but the son said that John was coming from Aylesbury so how could that be. John then 'ran away'. The son caught him and took him back to Aylesbury.
Jo
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 08 May 07 15:34 BST (UK) by Lincslass »
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Rochdalian
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 468
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Hi Jo
Thanks for your efforts, I look forward to the next installment if its not to much trouble.
Bob
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Lincslass
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Posts: 377
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Regretably there is no age in the papers. I checked both publications.
Seems he stole two horses belonging to different men but was only indicted for one.
The Gazette says in October edition that as it had been reported in the petty sessions, they did not give details. Just that he was found guilty in the quarter sessions. So checked back to the petty sessions and he was arrested on 27th/28th September and described as 'John Knight, a young man of respectable appearance' and that he had stolen the horses from Luttershaw Leicestershire and they were worn out when he got to Aylesbury were he stabled them. They also say that he paid someone one shilling to take the horses into the fair which was being held on 27th/28th September. This aroused suspicion and was by all accounts his downfall.
I did a quick check for Dawes/Knight baptism in Aylesbury c 1810 to 1816 but with no luck. But to honest, if the purpose of going to Aylesbury was to sell the horses, he could be from anywhere.
Sorry I cannot be of any further help.
Jo
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Valda
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Is there is no 'convict indent' for him in the Tasmania record office? Only a conduct record?
Regards
Valda
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Rochdalian
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 468
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
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Thanks Jo for taking the time and effort to do the look ups for me. Looks like I may have to put this on the back burner for now.
Valda, I got a copy of a document from Tassie which gives his name (and alias), where convicted, when and term. I assume that is the indent. Another one is a printed checklist type of document, NAME, Trade, Height, Age etc. All this has is his name and written across it is 'Jumped overboard'. Then there is the Conduct Record with 'Jumped Overboard at Plymouth' written on it. The number in the top left corner was issued as 919.
Cheers
Bob
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Rochdalian
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 468
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Hi Di
The more the merrier I say, feel free to butt in any time.
Just had a quick initial look and John Mayo was convicted Buckinghamshire1791 7yrs, transported on the 'Royal Admiral'. She sailed from Torbay on 30 May 1792 and arrived NSW 7 Oct 1792. She was built on the Thames in 1777, was 914 tons.
You may want to search the following website http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/colonial_secretary_1788-1825_252.asp
There was a John Mayo married in 1804 to a Mary Weldon at St Johns Parramatta, he could be yours as the next John Mayo marriage was in 1826. I got that info from the NSW BMD site at http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm
A Mary Weldon was convicted at Middlesex 1802 for 7 yrs, transported per 'Glatton' left England 23 Sept 1802 arrived NSW 11 March 1803, she may be yours too.
Hope this helps but suggest you start another thread on 'Emigrants to Australia' board you will then pick up the chatters with more access to info than me.
Good Hunting
Bob
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Lady Di
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2340
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Hi Bob,
WOW - that was quick and thorough!!
Yes, John and Mary are my gg?? grandparents and have actually been well researched in Oz by many people.
Unfortunately I haven't found out what he did wrong to receive a 7yr term in Oz. I'm sure that he stole a horse, chicken or something - seems like it was the usual thing at the time.
The only info I had was that he was tried in "Aylesbury Court on 3rd/6th October 1791 and sentenced to 7 yrs"
I have his ancestry etc - it was only the crime I couldn't find.
Thanks also Valda. I have previously been in touch with Amanda (another "cousin" and descendant of Mayo/Weldon) but Amanda doesn't mention a crime either.
Thanks for your help folks
Di
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« Last Edit: Tuesday 15 May 07 23:06 BST (UK) by Lady Di »
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MOULE :Whaddon/Cambs SMITH :SSX/Brighton and Birmingham TATTERSALL : NSW,SSX/Brighton GINGER : London AGGS : Norfolk & London GOODWIN : Kent Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Valda
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Both the Assize court and the quarter sessions would have been held in Aylesbury which is the county town of Buckinghamshire, but they were two different courts with two different sets of records.
The system worked with minor courts - Petty sessions with local magistrates - justices of the peace, then quarter sessions (courts held 4 times a year) which dealt with a range of crime but not usually the very serious such as murder, however they did try crimes such as stealing and pass sentence of transportation. The local county judges sat in these courts. Then there were the Assize courts who tried the serious cases. They were tried by King/Queen's judges who travelled around the country on 'circuits' arriving at the local county towns such as Aylesbury twice a year. As these judges and their clerks were paid for and appointed by the government their records are held at The National Archives whereas the county judges records from the quarter sessions are with the County Record Office. Cases overlapped between the courts and in 1971, both courts which also dealt with civil cases, were abolished and replaced with one set of courts - the Crown courts.
http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/leisure/archives/holdings/a_c/assizecourts.htm
Regards
Valda
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Lady Di
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2340
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Thanks Valda,
As usual, you are a wealth of information.
I'll follow up at the Nat Archives and see what may be available.
Thanks
Di
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MOULE :Whaddon/Cambs SMITH :SSX/Brighton and Birmingham TATTERSALL : NSW,SSX/Brighton GINGER : London AGGS : Norfolk & London GOODWIN : Kent Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Lincslass
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 377
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Lady Di
Looks like your John Mayo was naughty boy. 4 strikes and your out !!!!!
It would also appear that his Granny is not very nice as not only did she shop John but Mary Mayo (Late Harrup) Unsure what the realtionship there is.
Its very long winded and very detailed. So will send you a pm.
Jo
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Lady Di
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2340
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Hi Jo,
Thank you so much for all your help.
PM received and it's certainly confusing but VERY interesting. I hadn't realised that John appeared to have been charged on many prior occassions - sounds like he was very lucky to only receive a short sentence.
Very much appreciate all your help 
Thank you
Di
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MOULE :Whaddon/Cambs SMITH :SSX/Brighton and Birmingham TATTERSALL : NSW,SSX/Brighton GINGER : London AGGS : Norfolk & London GOODWIN : Kent Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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