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Topic: 1851 Pontypool - Sarah & Joseph MORGAN Iron master & son William 4 (Read 631 times)
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cumrew
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 42
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi
I wonder if you could help us find this William Morgan?
We would love to know if you could locate a child called William Morgan born "Pontypool Wales" about 1847, in the 1851 census? or 1861?
His father was Joseph Morgan and mother Sarah Thomas [ maiden name]
Joseph Morgans occupation was something unclear like Iron maker??
William Morgan arrived in Victoria by 1872 perhaps was there for 3 years before this too.
His occupationa were: Accountant Bookkeeper and Journalist
He was married twice - to Annie BROWNE and some years after her death to Mary Pauline VEEN in Victoria.
Thank you
Liz
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3604
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Couldn't at first see a family to fit this one, but then found one almost as far as they could be from Pontypool and still be on the England & Wales census.
1861 Beer Pot(?), Seaton, Cumberland RG9/3937 folio 16 pg 25
Joseph Morgan head mar 42 manager of iron & tin works b. Glamorganshire, Merthyr Tydfil
Sarah wife 47 b. Monmouthshire, Newport
William son 12 clerk at tin works b. Monmouthshire, Pontypool
Joseph son 10 scholar b. Monmouthshire, Blaina
The only family I can see on the 1851 that seems to match has a different wife/mother
Blaina, Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Joseph Morgan head mar 33 stock taker b. Glam, Merthyr Tydfil
Margarette wife 31 b. Merthyr Tydfil
Sarah dau 8 b. Pontypool
Margarette dau 7 b. Pontypool
William son 3 b. Pontypool
Joseph son 9 months b. Blaina
plus a lodger
Given that the census in 1851 was on the 31st March, this looks a good bet for Joseph's birth
Joseph Morgan june qtr 1850 Abergavenny vol 26 pg 17
or possibly a late registration sept qtr 1850 Abergavenny vol 26 pg 10
Far too many William Morgans registered Pontypool around that time to guess which one he might be.
If Margaret died when William was very young, he might not have remembered her. Several possible deaths registered for a Margaret Morgan between 1851 and 1861. Ages not recorded on the index at this time, so it would be more guesswork. No marriage of a Joseph Morgan and Sarah Thomas on Freebmd between 1851 and 1861, but there is this one
Joseph Morgan march qtr 1855 Pontypool vol 11a pg 138 with Sarah Williams on the same page.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3604
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I've had another little look and the only other time I can find the family is in 1871
Ickles Rolling Mill Yard, Brinsworth, Yorkshire RG10/4704 folio 137 pg 8
Joseph Morgan head mar 49 manager (rolling mill) b. Wales, Merthyr Tydfil
Sarah wife 60 housewife b. Wales, Pontypool
Sarah Syberry 58 domestic servant b. Yorks, Maltby
Can't spot Joseph in 1841. Possible deaths for both Joseph and Sarah between 1871 and 1881, but not in area where they were in 1871. Haven't looked for marriages for the sisters as they could be more or less anywhere given the range of the family.
Could be that the whole family went to Australia.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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cumrew
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 42
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear Osprey, sharp eyes indeed...
THANK YOU VERY MUCH! 
That is amazing how fast you found him and such a long way from Wales!
I had given up on finding William's birth in Pontypool ages ago...
Yes I agree I don't think William would have known his real mothers maiden name.
The occupations of the census in 1861 sure ties in.
And William was very successful out here.
As u can guess the ship's passenger lists are not much use here with this name.
We have been wondering if he had brothers and sisters too...
Thank you so much.
Liz.
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3604
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Cumrew,
I'm glad that one worked out! I kept on coming back to the 1851 one as the only William with father Joseph in the right area, but was puzzled by the mother. Finding them in Cumberland was a bit of a surprise. Looks like Joseph senior moved around the metal working areas. Beer pot appears to be the tin-plate works.
I've got access to the baptisms for Pontypool, but couldn't see any of the Morgans on there, so possibly they were non-conformists. But at least there's Joseph junior's birth to confirm mother's maiden name.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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cumrew
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 42
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Osprey - thank you - found that Beer pot is actually Barepot on multimap - the old map close- in one showed it.
Yes - I would like to confirm mothers name..
Liz
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cumrew
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 42
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear Osprey,
re: The search for the mother of
Joseph Morgan b 1850, Bliana, Abergavenny, Wales, and
William Morgan bc 1847 "Pontypool", sons of Joseph Morgan, "Iron maker".
William MORGAN's mother was, I see now,
Margaret THOMAS and father
Joseph Morgan was a Stocktaker when Joseph MORGAN was born. on birth certificate 1850, as in the 1851 census!!
Longer version..
From your brilliant deductions of this family in 1851 Census- I got the first birth certificate and it was all wrong father and mother but the next one is spot on!
The mother was Margaret THOMAS and father Joseph Morgan stocktaker. and Joseph MORGAN was born 19th June 1850 at "Cronw felyn"  handwriting problem there for me , Aberystruth.
Now it so happens that when William MORGAN married in Australia he put his mothers maiden name as Sarah THOMAS ! so I reckon we have the birth mothers surname, and she probably died in childbirth or something before the father married [1861 census] Sarah wife 47 b. Monmouthshire, Newport.
So William remembered his birth mother as THOMAS and knew his step mothers first name Sarah.
>>
Blaina, Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Joseph Morgan head mar 33 stock taker b. Glam, Merthyr Tydfil
Margarette wife 31 b. Merthyr Tydfil
Sarah dau 8 b. Pontypool
Margarette dau 7 b. Pontypool
William son 3 b. Pontypool
Joseph son 9 months b. Blaina
plus a lodger
Given that the census in 1851 was on the 31st March, this looks a good bet for Joseph's birth
Joseph Morgan june qtr 1850 Abergavenny vol 26 pg 17
or possibly a late registration sept qtr 1850 Abergavenny vol 26 pg 10
Far too many William Morgans registered Pontypool around that time to guess which one he might be. "
Many many thanks this is marvellous...
never thought we could ever find out anything much about our man in Wales with such a surname...
Liz
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3604
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Liz,
thanks for your thanks and the pm. Glad that worked out. Just shows how sometimes you have to around the houses to get to where you want.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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