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Topic: Weeping trees on grave-stones (Read 1114 times)
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Lydart
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I was in Anglesey last weekend, staying with friends at Menai Bridge. We went for a walk, and headed for a church on an island in the river sorry ... the bit of water between Anglesey and the mainland ...
There were many gravestones with variations on a weeping tree cut into the slate at the top of the stone ... see pictures. (Sorry about the bird poo !)
Can anyone say what they represent ? And why was this type of carving popular over a period of time (graves dated 1880's to about 1920's had the tree).
The only thing I can think of is that it represents the willows of Babylon, as in Psalm 137 ... "By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept ... we hung our harps upon the willows ..." (Authorised Version ... modern versions say poplars). Am I right ??
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Dorset/Wiltshire: Trowbridge, Williams, Sturney, Prince, Foyle, Fripp, Triggle ... and more Cornwall/Devon/CANADA: Pomeroy Somerset: Clark(e) Durham: Law London: Poplett Lancashire/Cheshire/CANADA: Stubbs, Walmesley Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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ricky1
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Hi Lydart
I think they mean trees of sorrow. A Weeping Willow Tree
ricky
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Harby,Garton,Drury,Duncombe,Booth,Catton,Barker, Kirkby, Wilson. Lincolnshire, Also Murkin's, Jeffery,Pettitt,Carter, from Suffolk/Cambridgeshire boarder Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Lydart
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Thanks for that site ... and yes, Ricky, thats what I thought they meant. But are they something specially from north Wales ? I've never seen them elsewhere, and didnt have time to visit any more cemeteries !
Here's another variation on the same theme !
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Dorset/Wiltshire: Trowbridge, Williams, Sturney, Prince, Foyle, Fripp, Triggle ... and more Cornwall/Devon/CANADA: Pomeroy Somerset: Clark(e) Durham: Law London: Poplett Lancashire/Cheshire/CANADA: Stubbs, Walmesley Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Berlin-Bob
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Some related topics here, but I don't think we've had willow trees before:
Topic: RootsChat Topics: Graveyards, Gravestones, Gravestone Symbols, etc. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,203252.0.html
Bob
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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wilcoxon
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Barry Sheene 1950-2003
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I asked about this to the Menai Bridge History Group - this is the reply.
However thank you for the question, I have spoken with one of our trustees a local historian. She advises me that the mark you have seen is a palm tree and would have been the mark of the stone mason who made the gravestone. Apparently masons might have had more than one mark and it would be the choice of the family as to which mark was used.
I hope this answers the question,
Also please visit the exhibition which reopens on 18th June 2007.
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Berlin-Bob
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and would have been the mark of the stone mason who made the gravestone.
I'm sceptical !
I know it is very trendy nowadays to wear clothing which advertises the manufacturer,
but I can't imagine a gravestone having such a big "X, his mark" for the stone mason.
At the most, something small on the back, or a discrete bit of ornamentation within the other carvings.
I think that is definitely a symbolic carving.
I'll go with the website Gallium mentioned:
Weeping Willow Emblem of Sorrow
Willows Earthly Sorrow
Bob
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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Lydart
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Really ?
Thanks for asking Wilcoxon, that was good of you, but I'm not sure if I can believe it ... the panel with the weeping tree is usually approximately one quarter to one third of the whole stone. Surely a masons mark would be tiny, compared with the size of the stone ? If you were the family of the deceased, would you really have the masons trade-mark filling the top third of your stone, above all the details of the dead person ?!
I wouldn't !
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Dorset/Wiltshire: Trowbridge, Williams, Sturney, Prince, Foyle, Fripp, Triggle ... and more Cornwall/Devon/CANADA: Pomeroy Somerset: Clark(e) Durham: Law London: Poplett Lancashire/Cheshire/CANADA: Stubbs, Walmesley Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Peterej
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I agree it would be most unlikely that this is a mason's mark.
I have photos of headstones with my family complete with palm tree taken in Corris (mid Wales) and I doubt that a mason would travel such a distance in the 1880's.
Peter
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Jones, Edwards, Davies, Owen, Benjamin , Hughes , Roberts,Thomas,Williams, Wynne , Griffiths, Howells, Rowlands etc etc plus Thomas,Trewren,Holmes,Thirlwall,Jones again & again & more "This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk" |
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Lydart
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Thank you VERY much for this:-
http://www.prosiectmenai.co.uk/churchisland.html
I'm going back to Anglesey soon, and this site fills in some gaps (well, more gaping caverns) in my knowledge about the place.
I suspect the explanation of the weeping trees is that it was just a fashion at that time ... just like some grave-yards have lots of angels heads on graves. The carving on the slate stones is very fine ...
I also went to Pen Mon on the eastern pojnt of the island ... well worth a visit.
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Dorset/Wiltshire: Trowbridge, Williams, Sturney, Prince, Foyle, Fripp, Triggle ... and more Cornwall/Devon/CANADA: Pomeroy Somerset: Clark(e) Durham: Law London: Poplett Lancashire/Cheshire/CANADA: Stubbs, Walmesley Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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wilcoxon
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Barry Sheene 1950-2003
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Enjoy your visit, I have just come back from a flying visit to Menai Bridge this morning. I went to Bangor Library to do some research and popped over to the Liverpool Arms for a `pie and a pint`. 
I visit Anglesey very often, usually when there is M/C meeting at the Trac Mon. 
There are lots of lovely places to visit, do your homework before you go and I agree Penmon priory is lovely. Try the ` Church in the bay- St Cwyfan`s ` by Aberffraw, at sunset, and just up the road is the Burial Chamber at Cable Bay.( Trecastell) 
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Lydart
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We had Sunday lunch in the Liverpool Arms !! And to keep on topic, we talked about slate grave-stones and their fine carving while we ate excellent lamb !
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Dorset/Wiltshire: Trowbridge, Williams, Sturney, Prince, Foyle, Fripp, Triggle ... and more Cornwall/Devon/CANADA: Pomeroy Somerset: Clark(e) Durham: Law London: Poplett Lancashire/Cheshire/CANADA: Stubbs, Walmesley Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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ali607
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Hi - just to say that Iv been on that island in the Menai Straits and in the little church there. Im a graduate of bangor uni (and about to be a student there again!) and used to go over to this island quite a lot when i needed some time to think and somewhere quiet to go. Iv made many an important decision sat in the tiny tiny church on that island - isnt it 15th/16th century? Its one of those very special places to me.
Alison
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Surname interests:
Salter, Fulford, Woodcock, Finney, Tissington, Driscoll, Shea, Maxfield, Collier, Hughes, Williams, Petty, Pearson, Prescott, Baldwin,
Area interests:
West Riding Yorkshire: Rotherham, Hemsworth, Darfield, Sheffield
Worcestershire/Staffordshire: Oldbury, West Bromwich, Halesowen, White Heath
Lancashire: Wigan, Aspull,
Nottinghamshire: Worksop
erbyshire:alfreton, ironville, codnor
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ali607
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ps - penmon point/puffin island was also a favourite place of mine and the beach at newborough and llanddwyn island. Will be going back there in the summer!
Hope you had a nice time there
ALison
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Surname interests:
Salter, Fulford, Woodcock, Finney, Tissington, Driscoll, Shea, Maxfield, Collier, Hughes, Williams, Petty, Pearson, Prescott, Baldwin,
Area interests:
West Riding Yorkshire: Rotherham, Hemsworth, Darfield, Sheffield
Worcestershire/Staffordshire: Oldbury, West Bromwich, Halesowen, White Heath
Lancashire: Wigan, Aspull,
Nottinghamshire: Worksop
erbyshire:alfreton, ironville, codnor
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