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Topic: Does anyone know my Eliza (Hartshorn - e)??? (Read 402 times)
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DJH
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 164
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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This is my problem! How do I decide?
In 1891 she was living with Ezekiel Hutchinson a barman in Newcastle upon Tyne. She said she was 24 years old and born in Shrewsbury. With her was her son, my Grandad, John W Hurchinson age 4 years (which would fit) although she said he was born in Wellington. I think she was an inveterate liar!!!!
David
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DJH
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 164
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Anna,
Should I be working backwards from 1901 instead of trying to guess which Eliza was born somewhere?
David
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 3407
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Anna,
Should I be working backwards from 1901 instead of trying to guess which Eliza was born somewhere?
David
David
Absolutely, yes - one of the fundamentals of this FH lark is to start with what you know and work backwards, step by careful step. It's really the only way to avoid getting caught up on a wild goose chase for the wrong person.
I'm sure Rootschatters will be more than willing to help you on the journey!
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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DJH
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 164
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Eliza apparently told my Grandad that she was born in Bridgnorth and her father was Joseph who was a coal miner. Unfortunately I have not been able to get these facts to produce a person. I did find joseph a coal miner in Shropshire where there were a lot of Hartshorns but I can't find any evidence that he had a child. From the ages she gave later I think she was born in the 1860s. She did lie as we know when she lived with Ezekiel Hutchinson.
Is there anywhere where I can see ready solved family trees which might help to eliminate some of the possible Elizas leaving mine?
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 3407
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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David
"Ready solved family trees" are only as good as the person who happens to have researched them. Even if you do find something online (google and you'll find all sorts of FH info, of widely varying quality, which people have posted online) don't treat it as gospel unless and until you have established what sources have been used and the basis of the conclusions which have been reached. Frankly, you may as well do the research yourself - then you know you can rely on it 
A few questions
1) You originally said she was living as "wife" of a John Hutchinson - now you mention Ezekiel Hutchinson - was the reference to John just a typo or are they separate people?
2) Have you found her son John in 1901? Do you have his birth certificate? Did he go by Hartshorn(e) or Hutchinson?
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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DJH
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 164
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks, Anna, for your good advice. Yes, John was a mistake.
I also know quite a lot about Grandad - John William. He was born in the Workhouse at Atcham in 1887 and I also have a Baptismal record for him in Shrewsbury although they added an 'e' to his surname. In 1891 he was called John William Hutchinson in Newcastle. In 1898 he was taken to the Industrial School, Newcastle upon Tyne having been found 'destitute' (there is more) He stayed there for some years getting an apprenticeship in printing. In 190 he was still there. In 1906 he moved down to Ashby to finish his apprenticeship and find his mother again. Then in 1914 he married my Grandmother and moved to Coventry.
I am simply stuck!
David
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 3407
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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OK, so you are able to link the Eliza Hutchinson in Newcastle in 1891 to the Eliza who was in Ashby in 1901
They both say they were born Shrewsbury. Taking the ages given in the respective censuses (24 in 1891, 31 in 1901) you're looking at a birth date of around 1866-1870.
I now see that you've posted about a Shropshire Eliza elsewhere on Rootschat:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=bd670284ee3d35efe70afa7568aa4f8c&topic=220643.msg1156634
It's always a good idea to put links in your posts to other threads, to avoid duplication of effort.
Were you able to make any headway with the Eliza Cooper/Hartshorn you were seeking there?
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 3407
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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...and one more question (for now): did Grandad John William give a name and occupation for his father on his marriage certificate?
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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DJH
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 164
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Anna, No I wasn't. Unfortunately I don't really know what I'm doing and I wouldn't know how to put links in posts(?)
Do you think I should be trying to find Eliza in 1881 now and give up on the Gateshead Eliza. What I thought I could do was to find out from others what their Elizas had done and where they had been so that I could eliminate them leaving me with the one that must be mine!
David
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DJH
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 164
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Ah, now we get to the red herrings!!! We know who John Williams father was. He was a William Kennedy of gateshead - a gardener. When Grandad got married he gave his name as John William Kennedy Hartshorn. My father visited Gateshead and met a member of the family (Grandma had their address in her address book) When the man came to the door he looked exactly like my Grandad and my father was convinced that William was Grandad's father. Two months after grandad was born at Atcham, William married a girl from Newcastle. Have I explained this so that you can understand it?
David
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