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Topic: A change of SEX! (Read 1351 times)
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DudleyWinchurch
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 474
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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FREEBMD have an Eliza Hartshorn registered in the last q of 1865 at Shrewsbury, 6a, 628 (isn't Meole Brace very near Shrewsbury?)
Ancestry have an Elizah b abt 1866 with a William and Sarah A on the 1871, somewhere in Shropshire (sorry I don't have access to see the page).
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McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, Cuthbert, Quirk (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
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DJH
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Toni*,
FreeBMD - does it have a website? I will try to find it.
I was rather thinking that William and Sarah Ann put their names on the birth cert. as the real parents were not able to; not married, to young etc.,?
Rambler,
I could try to get a marriage cert. for their ages. Thanks.
David
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DJH
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Dudley,
I think that is my Eliza as the heading on the birth cert. is St Chad Shrewsbury in the registration district of Shrewsbury.
The Elijah Census result for 1871 I have and he is a SON which is the problem.
David
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CatOne
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I think it says Elijah, not Elizah, looking at the other Elizabeths on the page and the way the enumerator writes his "Z"s.
The only other person with family is grandmother Elizabeth 74
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Dunning/Downing, Osborn/e, Astley -Cheshire/Birmingham/Middlesex Fanthorpe/Hall/Driffill/Storm - Lincolnshire Bower/Woodward/Bingham/Pettinger/Shaw - Nottinghamshire Shaw, Marland - Lancashire Broph(e)y - Queens County, Ireland Richards - Neath Swansea Hunt/Fox - Lincs, Waterfield/Middleton - Staffs Hart/Harland/Askew/Scales - Yorkshire Brereton/Vickers - Cheshire Gleaves/Sandford/Hulse/Hulme - Wolstanton/Audley Staffs Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov |
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DJH
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I think you are right. It definitely says SON though. So where is Eliza who was certainly born?
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DJH
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I think the 'j' is dotted.
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tazzie
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Hi....
Taking this from another angle...she was your grt grandmother so when did she marry and where and to who ?
If we can account for her on nearest census and work back there maybe a clue.
Do you have the marriage cert of great grand parents?
Tazzie
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Liscoe -all Green/Simpson/Underwood-Beds Walker/Foulkes/Fookes/Fooks/Hedges/Lamborne-Bucks. Stanton/Pattrick/Cooper/Fitzjohn/Holland/Spalding-London Rewallin/Underwood -Devon Casbolt-London/Cambridge Favell/Favel - Lincs-Beds This information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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DJH
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Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I do know quite a bit about GGrandma Eliza including when and where she gave birth to my Grandfather and also where, and to whom, she married and where she died and when. I just cannot find her and it is in hope of someone saying that they had an Eliza in their family who probably disappeared or took another name that I might be able to pin her down. I have her parents names on her birth certificate.
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DudleyWinchurch
RootsChat Senior
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Posts: 474
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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She seems to be still with her parents, aged 35, in 1901 at Meole Brace, but that's a bit odd too as Ancestry have indexed her as Eliza, possibly Hartshorn Hartshorn and National Archives have her as Elizabeth Hartshorn, occupation cowman - do you think this is what confused the enumerators if they kept telling them that she is the cowman?!
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McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, Cuthbert, Quirk (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
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tazzie
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Posts: 4027
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Ok....so who did she marry...working backwards may help pin point the area and we can then double check the birth that you have as the right one.
If you have marriage cert it would confirm father.
I only found my grt grandfather when I found a newspaper detailing the inquest to his death in 1910.
He was Albert Green birth cert said father John Green.
However John Green had died ..his mother remarried a Millard and on all census he was indexed as Albert Millard. It took four years to find him!
Just a thought but it may help the searchers.
Tazzie
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Liscoe -all Green/Simpson/Underwood-Beds Walker/Foulkes/Fookes/Fooks/Hedges/Lamborne-Bucks. Stanton/Pattrick/Cooper/Fitzjohn/Holland/Spalding-London Rewallin/Underwood -Devon Casbolt-London/Cambridge Favell/Favel - Lincs-Beds This information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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meles
RootsChat Aristocrat
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Posts: 2917
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It is a possibility she was a cowperson, and assumptions were made...
meles
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Brock: Alburgh, Norfolk, and after 1850, London; Tooley: Norfolk Grimmer: Norfolk; Grimson: Norfolk Harrison: London; Pollock Dixon: Hampshire; Collins: Middx Jeary: Norfolk; Davison: Norfolk Rogers: London; Bartlett: London Drew: Kent; Alden: Hants Gamble: Yorkshire; Huntingford: East London Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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PaulineJ
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Playing devil's advocate,
How can you be so certain that you have the birth certificate of 'your' particular Eliza Hartshorn, and not another?.
Other posts of yours attest to family stories that her father was Joseph...
Just what details are shown on EACH document that you hold which DEFINITELY relate to your Eliza, rather than any other.
A crude search on the transcribed birth indexes reveal several candidates born in that time frame. Which of the many have you elimininated/are still unaccounted for?
Pauline
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All census look up transcriptions are Crown Copyright ====================================== Brown 1800 Dover -> Woolwich (Kent) Barnett 1800 Isleworth -> Woolwich Pannifer 1830 Suffolk -> Deptford Kent Brierley in Staffordshire(Pre-1875) Walters in Middlesex(Pre-1875) Clift,Gould in Devon/Cornwall http://www.freecycle.org/display.php?region=United%20Kingdom |
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DJH
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you all for your interest and help. As you can see I am confused and not sure where to look. The information I have which I know to be true is:
1887 Eliza Hartshorn gave birth to my Grandad in the Union Workhouse at Atcham.
His name was John William and his father was William Kennedy (not named on cert. but known to be true)
1891 Living as the "wife" of Ezekiel Hutchinson and son John William aged 4, in Newcastle upon Tyne.
1898 In Carliol Prison, Gateshead for being 'drunk and disorderly' as a result of which Grandad was taken to the Industrial School, Newcastle.
1901 Eliza was lodging with a couple called Ward in Ashby de la Zouch, Leicestershire and Grandad was still in the Industrial School.
1906 Eliza married Abraham Hill at Ashby. Grandad came down looking for her and to finish his Printers apprenticeship in Ashby. She said she was 37 and her father was Joseph a collier (I did find a Joseph in the Londen area aged 19 who could have been her father ?)
1911 Eliza died aged 43
That is all I know and I still can't find her parents. I must be missing something I think.
David
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avm228
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 3077
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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David, as I mentioned in yesterday's thread...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,233342.msg1249096.html#msg1249096
...I do think it's dangerous to try to work *forward* from Elizas (or indeed Elijahs) in the 1860s to try to establish a connection with your Eliza who was in Ashby de la Zouch in 1901/Newcastle in 1891.
Edited - of course there's nothing wrong with trying to find Elizas who fit the bill, but what you *know* (so far as I understand it from yesterday) is the 1891/1901 information, rather than that the 1865 Brace Meole birth is the right person 
Anna
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Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)
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