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Topic: A change of SEX! (Read 1364 times)
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DJH
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Posts: 153
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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My GGrandmother, Eliza Hartshorn, was born in 1865 at Hookagate, Brace Meole. Her father was William, a coal miner and her mother was Sarah Ann (formerly Jones).
In the 1871 Census, William is living with Sarah Ann at Brace Meole with ELIJAH, their SON born at Hookagate and aged 5 years!
In the 1881 Census, ELIJAH is now 15 and a Farm labourer!
What happened to ELIZA?
Help needed urgently please.
David 
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meles
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My guess would be that the census enumerators mis-heard and put down Eliza as Elijah. But twice...? 
Could there have been twins?
meles
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Brock: Alburgh, Norfolk, and after 1850, London; Tooley: Norfolk Grimmer: Norfolk; Grimson: Norfolk Harrison: London; Pollock Dixon: Hampshire; Collins: Middx Jeary: Norfolk; Davison: Norfolk Rogers: London; Bartlett: London Drew: Kent; Alden: Hants Gamble: Yorkshire; Huntingford: East London Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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DJH
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you Meles,
That is what I wondered. However, I am a twin and I know today that the actual time of birth is put on twins birth certificates. Perhaps this didn't happen in 1865.
I am totally at a loss as to where to look next.
David
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DJH
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Is it possible that a girl could have be brought up as a boy until about 15 years old?
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meles
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I've looked up FreeBMD and there is no Eliza or Elijah there....
Have you got a birth certificate?
meles
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Brock: Alburgh, Norfolk, and after 1850, London; Tooley: Norfolk Grimmer: Norfolk; Grimson: Norfolk Harrison: London; Pollock Dixon: Hampshire; Collins: Middx Jeary: Norfolk; Davison: Norfolk Rogers: London; Bartlett: London Drew: Kent; Alden: Hants Gamble: Yorkshire; Huntingford: East London Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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DJH
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I do have Eliza's birth certificate. Would it be possible to fool the Registrar. Do you have to have the baby with you when it is registered?
David
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meles
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No, but whilst the enumerator might have been in a bit of a hurry, the Registrar would have got the right details. I hope!
meles
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Brock: Alburgh, Norfolk, and after 1850, London; Tooley: Norfolk Grimmer: Norfolk; Grimson: Norfolk Harrison: London; Pollock Dixon: Hampshire; Collins: Middx Jeary: Norfolk; Davison: Norfolk Rogers: London; Bartlett: London Drew: Kent; Alden: Hants Gamble: Yorkshire; Huntingford: East London Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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DJH
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Toni*,
"elsewhere"? Do you mean staying somewhere else or do you mean not being included on the Census?
David
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Manchester Rambler
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Apologies if this is a daft question, but are you sure it's the right family? When did your Eliza marry, because Elijah is still unmarried and living with his parents in 1901....
RG13; Piece: 2541; Folio: 36; Page: 5
Hookagate, Atcham
William Hartshorn - Head - 62 - Coal Miner - Birmingham
Sarah Ann Hartshorn - Wife - 55 - Pontesbury
Elijah Hartshorn - Son - 35 - Cow [...] - Hookagate
William Hartshorn - Son - 26 - Coal Miner - Hookagate
Rachel Hartshorn - Dau - 15 - Hookagate
Rambler
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ANT: Nesbit, Potts CHS: Gosling, Hinton, Johnson, Marsland, Sorton LAN: Barlow, Jackson, James, Potts, Sorton MAY: Caulfield, Griffin SAL/STS: Goodwin, Gregory SOM: Dowding, James, Jones Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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pete edwards
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1841 census Meole brace, Shrewsbury, place Hook a gate,
Elijah Hartshorn miner 45 y
Elizabeth " 40 y
Emma " 10 y
Hanna " 2 y
Jane " 14 y
John " 12 y
Rebecca " 8 y
WILLIAM " 1 y
ho107 , piece 910. folio 33, page 6.
Dont know If you got this already?
Pete 
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Edwards, mainly Cound, Frodesely, Acton Burnell. Pitchford. and surrounding villages, Shropshire, / Rowe, Cound, / Littlehales, Berrington, Shropshire / Radford, Dublin, / Maguire, Acton Burnell, / Rudge, Frodesely, /
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DJH
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Rambler.
That makes it more complicated.
Could there be another William AND Sarah Ann? How would I find them?
You see, Eliza doesn't seem to feature in the Census of 1871 when she would have been 6 years nor in the 1881 Census.
David
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DJH
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks pete,
I have seen this but as you will see I could be looking at the wrong William! I can't find another though.
Here's a question:
If someone else gave birth to Eliza, would this William and Sarah Ann get away with registering her as their baby but not keeping it with them?
David
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Manchester Rambler
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As you have the names of Eliza's parents from her birth cert, I would suggest getting their marriage cert to check William's age, and help locate him on census:
Marriages Dec 1864
HARTSHORN William
JONES Sarah Anne
Atcham 6a 1304
It's possible William died young, and Sarah re-married, on which case Eliza might be listed under her step-father's name.
I'll have another look at censuses....
Rambler
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ANT: Nesbit, Potts CHS: Gosling, Hinton, Johnson, Marsland, Sorton LAN: Barlow, Jackson, James, Potts, Sorton MAY: Caulfield, Griffin SAL/STS: Goodwin, Gregory SOM: Dowding, James, Jones Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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