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Topic: Old Machar Cattle Dealers 19th century named Kemp (Read 303 times)
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woiiftm
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 71
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Anyone provide any advice on getting info re- this occupation / family?
Specifically an Alexander Kemp who was married on 1/1/1862 in Civil Parish of Old Machar at 88 Jack's Brae, to an Isabella Ogg.
Also, can't find any reference anywhere for "Jack's Brae"
Anyone know of it ?
Thanks
Gordon
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kickbuttgirlie
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 81
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Gordon,
Here's a link with some photos of Jack Brae as it is today. - Will see if I can find some with Older pics.
http://www.nepforums.co.uk/thisisnorthscotland/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=11587&page=4&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&fpart=1
Hope the link works if not shout - I'm always about.
KBG
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Aberdeen: Coulthard, Chilcott, Bartie, Wallace, Clark, Robertson, Warrander, Hunter, Brown
Lincolnshire: Chilcott, Barratt, Robinson, Twidale, Beacock
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woiiftm
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 71
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KBG,
Thanks for the response.
Have been finding it difficult to trace this part of family.
All help much appreciated.
Gordon
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MonicaLesl
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Posts: 4479
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Hi Gordon
What sort of info are you looking for on the family? There would seem to have been a large age difference between Isabella and Alexander (assuming his age was correctly transcribed), from the 1871 census:
Alexander Kemp 60, General Labourer, b. Rayne Aberdeenshire
Isabella Kemp 30, b. Aberdeen
James Kemp 8
Mary Kemp 1
Address: 24 Upper Denburn, Old Machar
Their children's entries on IGI:
1. JAMES KEMP Birth: 06 DEC 1862 Old Machar, Aberdeen, Scotland
2. MARY GILLESPIE KEMP Birth: 17 JUL 1869 Old Machar, Aberdeen, Scotland
A possible christening entry for Alexander, father James, on 18 JAN 1806 Rayne, Aberdeen, Scotland
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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woiiftm
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 71
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Hello again Monica, (previous thread on John Aird).
Age difference on Marriage cert shows Alexander as 59 and Isabella as 25.
I think I've traced an earlier marriage to Helen Anderson on 6/1/1821 in Old Machar with possibility of the following children, if I've got things right....
Janet 1821- Jane 1823-Alexander 1825-Isobel 1827-William 1829-Mary 1831
Christian 1836-Francis 1839
However think I might be needing a second source to confirm this, my current source being the LDS sight
I was looking at Alexanders father being Alexander born4/12/1791, Rayne
from Scotlands People Sight With his mother being Janet Emslie?
Where did you get James from
Thanks
Gordon
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4479
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Hi Gordon
The possible christening entry for the Alexander married to Isabella Ogg is based purely on the birth place showing on his census entry (age and birth place) and the name of his son following his marriage to Isabella.
I have found another Alexander Kemp, a cattle dealer, with a large family (8 children) age 61 in Old Marchar in the 1881 Census. Wife simply showing as Mrs with no first name (I think going by the children's entries on IGI it may be Jane Stewart).
The fact that this Alexander, married to a Mrs  , was a cattle dealer - going back to your original post - made me wonder what your original reference was for your Alexander's occupation. The one married to Isabella Ogg is showing as agricultural labourer in 1871. Any possibility you might be tracing the wrong Alexander if yours has been confirmed as a cattle dealer?.
What line are you tracing back and up to what point have you been able to formally verify any of the info?
Regards.
Monica 
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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woiiftm
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 71
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Hello Monica,
I'm tracing the Kemp line
1.Norman Kemp, born 14/9/1916 married to Janet Thornton..whose father was
2.James Kemp, born 9/11/1888 married to Elizabeth Benzie......."........"........."
3.James Kemp, born 6/12/1862 married to Annie McLeod............".......".........."
4.Alexander Kemp, married to Isabella Ogg, 1/12/1862.............."........".........."
5.Alexander Kemp, married to Janet Emslie, 19/12/1789
Have certificates for all the above and other births and deaths confirming the line.
For 1881 census I've traced Isabella and daughter Mary to Overgate in Dundee
Alexander(4) death on 2/1/1875 in St Clement area of Dundee, certificate confirming (5) as parents.
However and here's where my problems lie,
..........Alexander(4) shows age of 87 on death in1875.............?birth 1788
.................".......(4) shows age of 59 on marriage in 1862........?birth 1803
.................".......(4) shows baptised in Rayne.................................... 1791
His death cert shows previous marriage to a Helen Anderson, which I believe I've traced to 6/7/1821 in Rayne ( no age given )
All certificates from Scotlandspeople site
I am officially lost and confused
Any thoughts?
Gordon
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 4479
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Gordon
You are certainly on the right line - the cattle dealer entry on the 1881 is just a red herring. I had seen Isabella and daughter on the 1881 Census and thought that Alexander looked to have died.
This looks like Alexander and first wife in the 1841 Census, which corresponds with some of their children showing on IGI:
Alexr Kemp 43, toll keeper
Hellen Kemp 40
Janet Kemp 15
Christian Kemp 4
Frances Kemp 2
Address: Collyhill, Rayne - Everyone showing as born in the county.
And in 1851:
Alexander Kemp 58, retired farmer
Helen Kemp 56
Jannet Kemp 29
Isabella Kemp 23, dressmaker
Isabella Wright 4, granddaughter
Alexander Anderson 2, grandson
Unbaptized Boy 3 Mo, grandson
Address: Rochy Pool, Rayne - Everyone showing as born in Rayne
Can't easily see Alexander in 1861 as yet, but this looks like one of his daughters, with the address connecting to his marriage residence in 1862:
Jessie Kemp 38, washer woman, b. Rayne
Isabella Wright 14, daughter, (flax) Mill Worker, b. Rayne
Alexander Kemp 10, son, b. Rayne
John McDonald 6, son, b. Rayne
Address: 15 Jacks Brae, Old Marchar
Gordon, I would be pretty confident in your position that you have verified your sources up to the point you are at - No.5 on your list of ancestors.
You have Alexander's death cert which confirms his parents. You also have an OPR christening entry for him in Rayne to those parents.
You have details of his first marriage to Helen Anderson from his death cert and an OPR marriage for them. My census entries finds help to verify this and the children showing on IGI. These children's entries on IGI are actual extract from the OPRs so you may want to see whether any of the original entries provide further info/verification. I can't see a death for Helen post 1855 so maybe she died between 1851-55.
On the issue of his ages on the various entries you have for him, sadly it's one of those things. Perfect example of how ages for someone throughout their lives can be erratic to say the least. A sign of the times. Fortunately, you have the OPR entry for his christening, along with some other siblings, to help you verify.
You don't look to be lost and confused...you sound spot on
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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woiiftm
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 71
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Hello Monica,
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
If I can take advantage of your expertise one more time.
Firstly, I have possibly come up with Alexander (5) birth on 14/9/1760 in Rayne.
With so little information on this and the marriage cert, can you advise as to what or where I have to go to next, to get further back?
Secondly, being new to this, can you tell me what the IGI is that yourself and others keep refering to?
Thanks Again
Gordon
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MonicaLesl
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 4479
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Hi Gordon
IGI stands for the International Genealogical Index built by the Church of the Latter Day Saints (LDS). Their free online database is to be found on www.familysearch.org. Once there click on the 'search' tab top centre. On the left, tabs four down you will see the tab for IGI.
The information on the database come from two sources. Firstly filmed from the OPR index (you should find corresponding entries on Scotlands People) and secondly, submitted entries by members. The source of the information is clearly shown on the screen at the bottom. Sumbitted info whilst useful, treat with caution - it can be plain wrong!
IGI entries are particularly good in Scotland for the period of 1855-1875 when they stop. Records after this date are submitted entries. It also only covers birth/christenings/marriages. Very very little on deaths.
It is also very good at picking up on name variants (Jane/Jean, Janet/Jessie etc.) automatically. This facility is not 100% but really useful nevertheless.
You can also do what is called (or at least we in RootsChat tend to call them that!) parent searches which will show what children are showing for any couple. Simply fill in the father and mother's name on the right hand side and British Isles/Scotland on the bottom tabs. If you get what obviously looks like lots of children for more than one couple with those names, you can add time and county filters.
For example, doing a parent search for Alexander Kemp and Janet Emslie brings up the following children, all actual extract from the OPRs:
1. CHRISTIAN KEMP Christening: 24 OCT 1790 Rayne, Aberdeen, Scotland
2. ALEXANDER KEMP Christening: 04 DEC 1791 Rayne, Aberdeen, Scotland
3. JAMES KEMP Christening: 20 MAR 1794 Rayne, Aberdeen, Scotland
4. JANET KEMP Christening: 29 MAY 1796 Rayne, Aberdeen, Scotland
Christian would seem to be their first born following their marriage in 1789. Your Alexander would also look to be their first born son, so, if named after his father, that 1760 entry that you have found would look promising. Again from IGI:
ALEXANDER KEMP Christening: 14 SEP 1760 Rayne, Aberdeen, Scotland
Parents: Father: ALEXR. KEMP
Have a play - a very useful resource.
Regards.
Monica
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MacIsaac, MacDonald, MacPherson, MacVarish, MacMaster: Moidart - Inverness-shire.
Gillies: pre-1850 Knoydart, Inverness-shire /post 1850s Fort William area - Argyll.
Tully, Tulley, Moran, Murphy: Lanarkshire.
Durnan, Durnin, Kelly, Tully, McPhillips: Co Monaghan.
McIntyre, McMahon, Tully: Co Cavan (?) Ireland.
Moran: Co Mayo (?) Ireland.
..........and lots of Spanish name interests........
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woiiftm
RootsChat Extra
Offline
Posts: 71
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Hello Monica
Thanks for the explanation and advice
Perhaps I'll hear from you again when I pusue my next main line ...The Black's
Regards
Gordon
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