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Author
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Topic: Esther DAY born circa 1802 Padstow (Read 1398 times)
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coonwarra
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Posts: 608
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The 1841 census for Outlands has some as yet unidentified Scotts:
Rosa Scott aged 45 not born in county (don't know who she is)
Anne Scott aged 40 (presumably Anne Myers wife of Robert)
Charlotte Scott aged 20 (don't know who she is)
Emma Scott aged 20 (presumably daughter of Robert & Anne)
Rosa Scott aged 12 (presumably daughter of Rosa aged 45?)
Edwin Scott aged 15 (don't know who he is)
John Scott aged 10 (presumably son of Robert & Anne)
plus various servant
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Ireland: Arlour, Arlow, Hammond, Hannah, Shanks
Scotland: Allan, Black, Carlyle, Corkingdale, Fleeting, Grant, Hammond, Hannah, Kirkwood, Lothian, McFarlane, Neilson, Shanks, Sneddon, Wood
Sussex/Hampshire/Surrey/London/Kent: Beagley, Douch, Earl, Ladyman, Pattenden, Peskett, Standen, Stonestreet, Windiate
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deb usa
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Posts: 5473
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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Okay guys
I am trying to wrap my head around this .... How would Mary elizabeth Hammond be related? She was born 1868 Dublin ....
so ... to be a cousin of Robert Falcon Scott ...she would have to be related to Hannah Scott nee Cumings' siblings, or John E Scott's siblings.... ummm I get so confused sometime ....
help me out here...LOL ....
who did Mary Elizabeth Hammond marry?
gosh ...I think I need a glass of wine 
deb
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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coonwarra
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Posts: 608
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Mary Elizabeth Hammond married Thomas Hannah on 3 Jul 1895 in Dublin. He was from Stirlingshire in Scotland and they moved there after their marriage.
Her parents were Thomas Hammond and Agnes Templeton. This is where the trail goes cold. I have been unable to find the marriage of Thomas Hammond and Agnes Templeton. Also, most of the census docs for Dublin no longer exist, so I don't know when or where either of them were born.
Mary Elizabeth Hammond died young during the 1918 flu pandemic. My reason for looking for a connection to Scott is because she gave each of her 3 children (including my grandmother) a gold American dollar. My grandmother passed her's on to me and told me that her mother had been given these coins by Capt. Scott's mother and that they were related.
Obviously old family stories can often become muddled or exagerrated but I think it is an interesting tale worth investigating. As Scott's wife came from a long line of Irish ancestors I guess it is possible that any connection may actually be through her but I need to check out Scott's ancestry first before going into hers in any great detail.
Time to wrap a warm towel around the head and lie down in a darkened room!
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Ireland: Arlour, Arlow, Hammond, Hannah, Shanks
Scotland: Allan, Black, Carlyle, Corkingdale, Fleeting, Grant, Hammond, Hannah, Kirkwood, Lothian, McFarlane, Neilson, Shanks, Sneddon, Wood
Sussex/Hampshire/Surrey/London/Kent: Beagley, Douch, Earl, Ladyman, Pattenden, Peskett, Standen, Stonestreet, Windiate
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deb usa
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Posts: 5473
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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Hi
If your gr Grandmother, Mary Elizabeth Hannah (b 1868), received gold coins from Hannah Scott nee Cuming (b 1841) , then they would have had to have met up sometime or other in order for Hannah to give Mary E the coin.
In the 1901 census there are a few Mary E Hannah's born Ireland liviing in London.... I wonder if your Mary E Hannah came to London (as this is where Hannah Scott was living in 1901 with Robert F Scott), before going to Scotland to live..??
Can you give us the details of Mary E and Thomas Hannah's children.....
deb
PS: I remember doing a project in school (a long time ago  ) on Robert Scott and his Antarctic expedition .... in those days we had to use the library books etc ... how much easier would it have been to have had the internet
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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deb usa
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 5473
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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Hi again
I have been looking in the BRUCE family.... In all sources (except BMD) regarding Robert F Scott's marriage they say he married Kathleen Bruce. Coonwarra has said that he married EDITH ...
in the 1881 census;
Lloyd S Bruce,( b 1830, Ireland) Canon of York, rector of Carlton is a widower living with his children ....
Wilfred M (6)
Helen J T (4)
Edith A K (3)
I can find no Kathleen ...
Okay ... here is a Birth:
Edith AGNES K Bruce
June Q 1878
Notts, Worksop
Maybe her full name was Edith Agnes K(athleen) Bruce and she went by Kathleen!
Lloyd S Bruce's wife was Jane ..she was born (it looks like) Greece (British Subject) sooo it looks like the Irish side is with Lloyd S BRUCE!
I have google Lloyd S Bruce, Canon of York to find his parentage ...but no luck!
Lloyd S Bruce died Mar Q 1886, Christchurch Hampshire.
Lloyd married JANE SKENE in Dec Q 1863, Oxford Berkshire
all their children were born in England(Yorkshire and Notts).
I cannot find Lloyd in the 1861 census ...maybe he was still in Ireland!
ummmm How can we get Lloyds parents names ...maybe i should research the marriages of all Edith A K Bruce's siblings ( there are many in 1871 census) and see if we can find a marriage to either a Hammond, Templeton or Hannah....
I need coffeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee and Chocolate to keep me going 
Deb
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Logged
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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coonwarra
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 608
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Hi Deb USA (and others)
Your theory of Elizabeth Hammond and her husband Thomas Hannah visiting the Scott's in London is an interesting theory and I guess it is entirely possible. However, I have them in Stirlingshire, Scotland in the 1901 census:
29 Wallace Street, Grangemouth
Thomas Hannah, Head M 33, Railway Clerk, Stirlingshire, Bothkennar
Elizabeth Hannah, Wife M 31, Ireland
Georgina Hannah, Daughter 1
They had 2 further children - Annie McInnes Hannah born June 1901 and Thomas Hammond Hannah born April 1910. All 3 children were born in Stirlingshire.
We know that the Hammond's had lived in Dublin since at least 1868 as Mary Elizabeth Hammond was born there. Mary's sister was in the main Post Office there when the IRA took it over in the Easter rising of 1916. As Protestants they were unable to stay in Dublin and moved to Bangor. From there I believe that a few of them moved to England, although unfortunately I have no names etc.
As far as Capt Scott's wife is concerned I have her as Edith Agnes Kathleen Bruce, daughter of Lloyd Stewart Bruce and Jane Skene. I think that the 1878 birth that you found is most likely her.
I found 2 possible births for her father in the IGI:
Lloyd Stewart Bruce - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: About 1840 Downhill, Londonderry, Ireland
Lloyd Stewart Bruce - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: About 1837 Of, Inverurie, Aberdeen, Scotland
I think the Londonderry one is most likely. If so, then he was the son of James Robertson Bruce, born 04 Sep 1788 at Downhill, Londonderry - I have not yet identified the mother. This Bruce line can be traced right back to the family of Robert The Bruce King Of Scots and all the way back to the Kings of Upsalla in Sweden - a very impressive lineage indeed!!!!!!
If there is a link to my family then I imagine that it must be via one of the much poorer relations!
I don't know anything about Jane Skene other than her marriage to Lloyd Stewart Bruce. I wonder why her mother was in Greece at the time of her birth? It's all getting very interesting.
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Ireland: Arlour, Arlow, Hammond, Hannah, Shanks
Scotland: Allan, Black, Carlyle, Corkingdale, Fleeting, Grant, Hammond, Hannah, Kirkwood, Lothian, McFarlane, Neilson, Shanks, Sneddon, Wood
Sussex/Hampshire/Surrey/London/Kent: Beagley, Douch, Earl, Ladyman, Pattenden, Peskett, Standen, Stonestreet, Windiate
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deb usa
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 5473
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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Hi Coonwarra
Well it certainly is getting very interesting ...What a FABULOUS lineage!!
Okay I have been through all the marriages of Edith Agnes Kathleen Bruce's siblings ... Cannot find any that have the surnames we are interested in .
There is an interesting fact though ....Her siblings, as far as I can gather from the 1871 census ( Lloyd and Jane married in 1863) were:
Ellen Mary 1865 IGI extracted christening
Grace Gwendolen 1869 IGI
Irene Mary 1866 IGI
Loe mary cannot find her ...not sure of name
Robert Douglas 1867
big gap in dates now (this is from 1881 census)
Wilfred M 1875 submitted IGI
Helen J T 1877 no IGI info
Edith A K 1878 no IGI
I wonder why some have IGI info and others not and why is there such a big gap between children (almost 8 years)..by 1881 Lloyd the dad is widowed ... too many Jane Bruce's died between 1871 and 1881, although there is one who died in 1878 ...maybe her as Edith A K Bruce was born then ....maybe Jane died in childbirth ...... anyway I am going off on a tangent here .....
Where is the connection ?? .... I do hope we can find the link so that you can be part of this family! 
Regarding Lloyd Stewart Bruce ...
In 1871 census : he is 47 (b 1824) Ireland
In 1861census : he is 51 (b 1830) DOWNHILL, Ireland
On the 1871 census his age is hard to read as there is a line through it so it could be that he was 41 ie: b 1830... which would be consistent as I do not think the Canon of York would tell fibs about his age ....well I would hope not
I will look into Jane Skene ...maybe the link is there....
deb
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Logged
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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deb usa
RootsChat Marquessate
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Posts: 5473
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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OMG ...Coonwarra
Look at this ...
1861;
St Michael, Oxford
Frewen Hall
James Skene head mar 86 Landed proprietor Aberdeenshire b Aberdeenshire
Jane Forbes Skene wife mar 74 b Edinburgh
Felicia Mary F dau unm 39 b ?? France
Jane S Skene granddaughter unm 24born Athens Greece
lots of servants including a butler, lady's maid , house servants
Oh MYYYYYY ..... interesting
deb
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Logged
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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coonwarra
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 608
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Wow.......my goodness this inquiry is taking us in all sorts of unexpected directions!
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Logged
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Ireland: Arlour, Arlow, Hammond, Hannah, Shanks
Scotland: Allan, Black, Carlyle, Corkingdale, Fleeting, Grant, Hammond, Hannah, Kirkwood, Lothian, McFarlane, Neilson, Shanks, Sneddon, Wood
Sussex/Hampshire/Surrey/London/Kent: Beagley, Douch, Earl, Ladyman, Pattenden, Peskett, Standen, Stonestreet, Windiate
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deb usa
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 5473
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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okay
by pure accident I found this .....
1851;
Cornwall, Budock
John M D Skene head Mar 35 Commander Royal Navy b IRELAND
Harriet A " wife mar 20 Lady b SCOTLAND
Georgina L D dau 2 B Scotland
Margaret L sister 29 unm b Scotland
Caroline H Winthrop visitor Lady Kent Dover
marriage:
John McDowell Skene
Harriett anna Wood
1850, Falmouth Cornwall
IGI is down cannot see if they link to Jane Skene b Greece who married the Canon of York who had the daughter who married Capt Scott, who we are hoping has a connection to the Hammond/Templeton/Hannah people .....
arrrggggghhhhhhhhh
deb
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Logged
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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deb usa
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 5473
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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Hi
okay I found Jane SKARE (sic) (mother-in-law to Capt. Robert Falcon Scott) b 1837, Athens , Greece with her Skene family in 1851...
HO107/1728 fol 596 pg 27
I am still not sure how to find a connection to your family, Coonwarra ...but we are finding that there are more Irish connections that just the Bruce family .... that is if we can link Commander John McDowell Skene up with the Skenes of Scotland ....
OOOOOO....
I just found this on IGI - extracted
christening
John Skene
b 2 Feb 1808
c 17 Feb 1808 New Machar, Aberdeen Scotland
parents;
James Skene
Margaret CUMMINE
Could this maybe CUMING ......??
Just seen a submitted entry for this ... Maragret CUMMING !
will look further
deb
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Logged
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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deb usa
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 5473
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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just for interests sake ....
The name of Edith A K Bruce's (wife of Capt Scott) sister is ZOE Mary Bruce not 'Loe'
another interesting find , although submitted on IGI, is the approx DOB of a ZOE Skene b abt 1839 in GREECE .... could this be Jane S Skene b Greece (mother-in-law ) of Capt. Scott???
I am going nowhere.... I am floundering at sea (pun Intended)
deb
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Logged
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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coonwarra
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 608
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I think we may have reached the point where we have to throw in the towel on this one.
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Logged
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Ireland: Arlour, Arlow, Hammond, Hannah, Shanks
Scotland: Allan, Black, Carlyle, Corkingdale, Fleeting, Grant, Hammond, Hannah, Kirkwood, Lothian, McFarlane, Neilson, Shanks, Sneddon, Wood
Sussex/Hampshire/Surrey/London/Kent: Beagley, Douch, Earl, Ladyman, Pattenden, Peskett, Standen, Stonestreet, Windiate
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deb usa
RootsChat Marquessate
Offline
Posts: 5473
the Waterfield girls ..all 7 of them!
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Yep ...I am exhausted...but have learned some things I did not know before....
so thanks for the ' journey' .....
deb
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Logged
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Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton, Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans
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debco
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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As a late comer to this thread, I can't help but see some similarities to my own little journey. All the crazy variations on birthplace are easily explained by the occupations of choice for these families. They were all seafarers. And likely all working in the merchant trade. Also, they were probably fond of taking family with them on some of the voyages. Has anyone taken a look at the Lloyd's Register of Captains? There's a good chance that Captain Scott (and some of the rest of the family) are on there with information regarding their ports of call. Sadly, the only repositories of the records are select libraries throughout the world. There's a copy in Salt Lake, one in Ottawa, another couple in England (Maritime Museum and GRO) as well as one in Australia. Don't know if anyone has access to the records, but it might be worth a look.
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