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Topic: Kirkmabreck Marriage Carlile / McDowall (Read 1446 times)
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kay11
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 25
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Can a kind person help?
I am looking for the marriage of James Carlile to Mcdowall ( at this stage I do not know my ancestor's christian name).
The marriage may not have been in Kirkmabreck but elsewhere in Scotland it would have taken place between 1846 - 1850 as their child also James Carlile appears on census 1851 Creetown aged 2 years.
I would be very very grateful for any help my thanks in anticipation
K
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24474
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Kay
I'll have a look around for you but in the meantime, here's a photo of Kirmabreck new Kirk taken 2 weeks ago 
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24474
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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So far neither a marriage or a birth of a james Carlile (various spellings) or a James McDowall
On the 1861 he appears to be with his other grandparents at
Bells, Wynd, Creetown 873 Ed 6 page 16
James Carlyle, 63, granite Quarry worker*, b. Ireland
Ann, 63, wife, b. Ireland
Peter, 24, son, granite quarry worker, b. Ireland
Daniel, 21, son, granite quarry worker, b. Ireland
James, 11, granson, scholar, b. Creetown
It might be worth checking the 1841 to check the McDowall family - a daughter might be identified. Also, as the Carlile family where from ireland, they might be Roman Catholic and any marriage, baptism would not appear in the easily available records.
I'll keep looking around.
Gadget
* see also my photo of the Creetown Granite monument on this board
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24474
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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In 1841n the McDowall family are at St Johns Street, Creetown
873 ED 8 Page 8
Agnes McDowall, 35-39, Pauper
Janet, 13,
James, 10
Isabella, 7
Agnes, 4
John, 6
All born County
One of these daughters might well be James's mother
Gadget
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24474
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Kay
Have you followed him through the censuses to find out if he married and/or died in Scotland. This would give you (hopefully) his mother's name.
I haven't found any records of a marriage or baptism yet and there is the possibility that they might not have been married 
Gadget
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kay11
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 25
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Gadget
Very many thanks amazing response !
I've been on the hunt for James Carlile's mother it seems for an age .....!
Re 1841 census
Believe Janet married Fergus Skimming (what a name) though surprisingly I've been unable to find anything about this family.. Agnes is on the 1851 census and is too young to be James mother so from the 1841 census the only daughter available is Isabella whom I cannot find at all i.e death , marriage etc. That is not to say that other daughters born earlier don't exist ....
When you quote the 1841 census are you looking at the original doc ?? or the transcribed listing ? I have found many a error (transcribed) ! I have a feeling that christian names may be incorrect
I note the RC element any suggestions about finding more info?
Also many thks for the photo I stood there myself in May a very pleasant spot indeed! K
ps Just got your latest posting. James moved to Liverpool pre 1871 were he marries and then totally disappears I have been unable to find his death and have looked really hard ! His widow and daughter are on the 1891 and 1901 census.
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ankerdine
RootsChat Veteran
Posts: 638
Without Autumn there would be no Spring....
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Hi Kay
Gadget helped me too some few months ago with information about my family.
My gtx2 grandmother, living at Creetown, was married in Anwoth Parish and we thought it was at the old kirk there. However, she was actually married according to the Rites of the Roman Catholic Church at Gatehouse of Fleet in a private residence. Apparently according to a local historian, this house was known as the Catholic House and both persons married gave this address as their existing address.
I eventually found their marriage certificate on Scotlandspeople dated 1855, which gave me loads of information about their particulars.
I don't know if this information will help you at all but I hope so.
Regards,
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Marshall, Williamson, Blair, Hoggart(h): Creetown, Stranraer, Dalrymple, Auchinleck, Coylton
Scott, Ayrshire and England
Saxton, Brown, Sketchley: Nottingham, Rutland, Leicestershire
Bradbury, Turner, Merricks: Walsall, Penkridge, Staffordshire
McColville, Halliday: Northern Ireland
Hawker, Davies: Aston, Birmingham, Shropshire, Malone: Black Country
Silvers: Dudley, Worcestershire
Blakemore: Black Country, Shropshire, Rhodes: Bilston
Rhodes: Dudley, Worcs
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kay11
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 25
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Ankerdine
That's good news thank you - I'll do some further investigation..
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24474
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Kay
Your main problem is the date of any marriage  Official registration did not start in Scotland until 1855 so you're reliant on the Old Parish Records or other RC, etc. records being available.
Gadget
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kay11
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 25
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Gadget
Thanks again - believe the marriage was around 1847/ 48 and so I take your point.
Can you please advise what source you used when you searched for the marriage between James Carlile & ? McDowall together with deaths was it e.g. scotlandspeople?
K
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24474
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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Hi Kay
I checked in all the available collections, including Scotland's People, BIVRI and the IGI.
Have you found James Carlile (various spellings) who possibly married a McDowall on any censuses or records? Did they have any other children? Such answers might help you decide whether there was a marriage or not.
Regards
Gadget
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kay11
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 25
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Gadget - you are a STAR ....thk u.
No is the answer to your question....the ONLY piece of evidence I have is the 1851 census were James Carlile aged 2 is with his grandmother Agnes McDowall.
I surmised that a marriage took place as James adopts the surname of Carlile rather than McDowall. I believe James's parents died and this is why he in 1861 is with his paternal grandparents aged 11. I knw his father was also James and that he was a Stone Mason probably working at Creetown quarry he was deceased in 1871 upon James's marriage in Liverpool.
Did any of your sources pick up a Daniel or Peter Carlile - they were brothers of James.....
K
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Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24474
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
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I think there might have been a Daniel.
Kay - don't go on children's surnames to assume a marriage. Many children there and then were given the name of the father, if it was known, regardless of whether a marriage had taken place or not. I found an unmarried woman with children who had various surnames when doing a look up recently.
It might be worth you checking on SP after 1855 to see if any of the McDowalls or Carlile's married 'according to the forms of the Roman Catholic Church'.
Gadget
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kay11
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 25
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OK Gadget ..I'll take a look ....happy hunting!
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Kirkmabreck2007.jpg