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Author Topic: Sedbergh marriage in 1895  (Read 379 times)
AlexStewart
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Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« on: Thursday 26 July 07 20:10 BST (UK) »
Samuel Clucas Ward married Helen Rutherford in Sedbergh in the December quarter of 1895, the reference is 9a 7. My problem is that I cannot trace either of these in census returns in 1891, 1881 or 1871 with any confidence that I have the right people. Would a kind person who has access to Sedbergh marriages let me know where they were born or who their parents were? Clucas is an interesting name, and he may come from the Isle of Man where it is found often. Any help would be appreciated.
Alex
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Stewart:Donegal
Babington: Donegal and Londonderry
Patton:Donegal
Cunningham: Donegal and Londonderry
Carnwath: Londonderry
Morrow: Donegal 
Wray: Donegal
The Newfster
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Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 26 July 07 20:38 BST (UK) »
Can confirm Clucas IOM (and Liverpool   Wink )

I think you'll only get the Father's names from the Cert - unless someone has access to original Registers..

Good luck  Smiley
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
HAMMOND – 1825, Elmdon, Essex
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
sillgen
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Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 26 July 07 20:39 BST (UK) »
I am afraid you may have to buy the certificate to get information about their fathers.  Unless they happened to be witnesses then the church record does not show parents - nor birth place.
Have you found them after their marriage in the 1901 census?   That will give birth places.  What children did they have?
Andrea
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Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Galium
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 26 July 07 20:42 BST (UK) »
FreeBMD shows a Samuel C Ward born in  Runcorn district March Quarter 1866

Checking with Cheshire BMD:

http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/cheshirebmd/births.html

 shows that  Samuel Clucas Ward was born in Runcorn district in 1866.

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/marriages.html

Lancashire BMD has a marriage of John Ward and Jane Clucas at Toxteth Park St Pauls in 1865.
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The Newfster
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Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 26 July 07 21:00 BST (UK) »
1871 - RG10/3971; Folio: 110; Page: 32 - Stretford, Lancs
Chapel Lane, Woodland Terrace
 
John Ward 28  Head Foreman Timber Dealer Cheshire, Runcorn
Jane Ward 28  Wife do

Samuel ? Ward 5  son do
Ada Ward 3 dau do

Eliza Croft 25  Boarder Manchester
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
HAMMOND – 1825, Elmdon, Essex
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
AlexStewart
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Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 26 July 07 21:30 BST (UK) »
Thank you for the prompt and helpful replies. Thanks to Newf. for the IOM reference. Yes, I noticed when looking at the 1881 census that many of the 700+ Clucas names came from the Isle of Man.
Thank you to Sillgen. No, I cannot see them on the 1901 census. Regarding children I understand they had Jack in 1907. Yes, you are right  that I shall buy the marriage certificate of 1895!
Thank you very much to Gallium for the Cheshire information, and for the other Ward-Clucas marriage.
Alex
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Stewart:Donegal
Babington: Donegal and Londonderry
Patton:Donegal
Cunningham: Donegal and Londonderry
Carnwath: Londonderry
Morrow: Donegal 
Wray: Donegal
Galium
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Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 26 July 07 21:44 BST (UK) »
Wales census 1881
Salop Road, Guilsfield, Welshpool, Montgomeryshire

John Ward          38  Boat Builder                    Runcorn
Jane Ward          38                                         Runcorn
Samuel C Ward  15  assistant boat builder     Runcorn
Ada Ward           13                                          Runcorn
Mary Jane Ward    9                                        Stretford
Martha Ann Ward   7                                      Welshpool
John Henry Ward    3                                      Welshpool
Thomas C Ward     9m                                     Welshpool
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Galium
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Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 26 July 07 21:53 BST (UK) »
In 1891 the whole family, including Samuel C and an extra Charles S Ward aged 8 are in Cefnllys, Llandrindod Wells, Radnorshire.

Class: RG12?Piece: 4585? Folio 14/ Page 9

John is still a boat builder. Samuel is now a sailor.
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AlexStewart
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Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 26 July 07 21:59 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much, Gallium, for your three interesting replies. The Runcorn reference and in particular the Clucas-Ward combination looks convincing. The move to central Wales requires careful investigation as Samuel very soon after that marries in Sedbergh! I am now doubtful whether he is the right person, but you may well be correct. Thank you for giving me useful information to consider carefully.
Alex
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Stewart:Donegal
Babington: Donegal and Londonderry
Patton:Donegal
Cunningham: Donegal and Londonderry
Carnwath: Londonderry
Morrow: Donegal 
Wray: Donegal
sillgen
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Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #9 on: Friday 27 July 07 08:41 BST (UK) »
The marriage certificate will also give his age and an occupation so that will help to confirm or disprove the census records.   Do you have a birth certificate for Jack?  What is the occupation on that?
John and Jane are still in Wales in 1901 with Charles and a grandaughter age 9.
Andrea
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Sill/Sills anywhere.  Rowan, Forman, Brown, King, Gray, Dods, Walker
Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
AlexStewart
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Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #10 on: Friday 27 July 07 08:53 BST (UK) »
Hello Andrea,
Thank you for your further reply. You are quite right that the certificates will be helpful in indicating age and occupation, and they will confirm or reject the idea of the move to Wales. I am hoping to contact the grandson of the family concerned again soon, and he may well acquire the certificates.
Alex
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Stewart:Donegal
Babington: Donegal and Londonderry
Patton:Donegal
Cunningham: Donegal and Londonderry
Carnwath: Londonderry
Morrow: Donegal 
Wray: Donegal
The Newfster
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Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #11 on: Friday 27 July 07 09:40 BST (UK) »
The 1871 and 1881 families seem to link well ..... albeit John's occupation change .... but still 'timber' oriented in 1881 .... Smiley
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
HAMMOND – 1825, Elmdon, Essex
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
AlexStewart
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Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 28 July 07 13:14 BST (UK) »
I should like to inform particularly Gallium and others who replied that I have now received evidence from a grandson of Samuel that the suggestion of Runcorn, Cheshire and Wales, and that Samuel was a carpenter/boatbuilder/ mariner was exactly correct, and I am very grateful to Gallium for steering me in that direction. Now for the Rutherford part of the Sedbergh marriage as she too is proving elusive.
Thanks again,
Alex
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Stewart:Donegal
Babington: Donegal and Londonderry
Patton:Donegal
Cunningham: Donegal and Londonderry
Carnwath: Londonderry
Morrow: Donegal 
Wray: Donegal
Galium
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 28 July 07 14:49 BST (UK) »
Thanks for letting us know, Alex.   I have had a go at looking for Helen, but without success.  With the name Rutherford, she might have been Scottish.  Maybe knowing her father's name will make her easier to find.
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AlexStewart
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Re: Sedbergh marriage in 1895
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 28 July 07 15:08 BST (UK) »
Thank you again, Gallium, for your continuing interest. Yes, it is  likely Helen was Scottish. I have persuaded the grandson to look at or buy the marriage certificate at Kendal which is not too far from his home. I think I am right that the Sedbergh marriage certificates are there.
Kind regards,
Alex
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Stewart:Donegal
Babington: Donegal and Londonderry
Patton:Donegal
Cunningham: Donegal and Londonderry
Carnwath: Londonderry
Morrow: Donegal 
Wray: Donegal
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