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Topic: 1841 CURRIE, a lost family! (Read 1734 times)
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johking
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Posts: 164
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I would have thought I would be bound to find this family on the 1841 as I have so many names, but I spent ages in the fam hist centre today with all the Kirkcudbrightshire 1841 booklets and failed to find them. If anyone has access to the 1841 and could be bothered to have a look, that would be great.
Of course they may have moved on from Kirkcudbrightshire - last known birth was 1832 in Balmaclellan, other births dotted around in Balmaclellan, Parton and Kirkpatrick Durham, only 2 subsequent births in the same place - suspect ag labs, perhaps?
At least the 4 youngest children, and possibly the parents too and other siblings, emigrated to Canada, supposedly in 1849, so they should be around somewhere in the 1841 if that emigration date is correct.
1841 ages:
John CURRIE
Margaret CURRIE, nee McCartney, b 1790, so age approx 51
Janet b 1815, age 26
George b 1817, age 24
John b 1819, age 22
William b 1822, age 19
? female (large ink blot over her name!) b 1825, age 16
James b 1827, age 14
Robert, b 1829 age 12
David b 1832 age 9
Apparently there was another brother too called Andrew. James is described in the OPR as "fifth son", so that would make Andrew older than him and from the dates really could only be squeezed in between William and ? female (I would so like to find her name!) or right at the beginning of the family, ie before Janet.
Any help most gratefully received
many thanks
Jo
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johking
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Well, that does look extremely interesting... I know that ages are often wonky on the 1841 census, but they aren't too far out and the order of offspring is correct which is the important thing. I wonder if John Snr had died and that precipitated the emigration?
Puzzled that Robert was missing though - he definitely went to Canada along with David, Andrew and James and, we think, mother Margaret and the mystery ink-blot sister (no sign of her name alas) - but he could have been staying with an older sister or brother, couldn't he? He would actually have been 11 in the 1841, I'm realising, as his birth was in November. Similarly David was aged 8, as he was born in June, so that tallies with your Carluke find.
Thanks very much indeed Joe. Best lead so far by miles...
Jo
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Sharron Elizabeth
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Jo,
I have tracked down the family of Janet Currie.
She married a farmer near Elora, Ontario, John Bosomworth, and had 2 sons and one daughter. I got the name 'Bosomworth' when my aunt suddenly remembered the name on a sympathy card when my grandfather, James Harold Currie, died in 1987. The card had come from Elora but she did not know the name.
So, I got the phone book and looked up the name ... called the first name, David, and lo' and behold, Janet was this man's gr.gr.gr.aunt. He gave me a little information and said that Janet was buried in the Elora Cemetery. I have yet to find her gravestone and hope that I find her brother James there as well. So anxious to identify 'inkspot' sister ... suspect she is a 'Margaret', after her mother.
Thank you for all the help you have been.
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Deacon, Currie, Chamney, McCartney, Wellwood, Davison, Greer
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johking
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Great stuff! So pleased for you.
Jo
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JKCIII
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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We're not lost...
The ink blot was Mingus/Menzies, the other sister was Jessie though she may have changed her name to Janet. Margaret is buried in the Bluevale, Ont. cemetery, her broken tombstone can still be found under a pile of scrub brush at the edge of the woods, between the road and her daughter in-law's grave stone, found further back along the N.W. edge of the woods.
John died in Scotland (no known details), though it is believed his roots were Norman, tracing back to Laird Sir Walter de Corrie & Lady Susanna Carlyle, Baldric the Teuton, Charlemagne and ultimately Clovis the Riparian. After John's death the family temporarily moved from Balmaclellan to Carluke, which is where Margaret McCartney's high-society family apparently originated from.
The family then migrated to Fergus, Ont. (c. 1845), with the exception of William, Thomas and George. (I believe Andrew died rather young) Thomas and William did not survive long enough to produce heirs. George's daughter Joann is believed to have gone to Australia. Apparently the family witnessed the burning of the parlament buildings in Quebec City on their trip up the St. Lawerence River.
After spending 4 years in Fergus, where the two sisters remained (Menzies became a school teacher), Robert, his brothers and mother bought land in Huron County and were the first to settle in the Wingham area. In fact they had to hack their own path though the woods to get there. Their stone homestead can be found in excellent condition on the S.E. corner of Hwy 86 and Currie Line. on the Western outskirts of Wingham, Ont. Robert's brothers David and John lived on adjacent farms immediately to the east of Robert's. John died the first winter after getting wet in the barn, but did have one surviving son, John Jr. who was raised to a large degree by Robert and his family. I believe Robert was also the first Reeve of Wawanosh Township in Huron County. The descendants of the other two brothers are still very active in the surrounding community.
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« Last Edit: Friday 21 September 07 20:14 BST (UK) by JKCIII »
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Sharron Elizabeth
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi and thank you, JKCIII !!!!
It sounds as if you know quite a bit about this family and I am very excited.
I am Robert's gr. gr granddaughter and am doing a family study for myself and for my own descendant's and there are a lot loopholes I would love to tighten up.
Elizabeth ... is she also who we know as Janet ?
Where did Menzie teach and did she marry ? have family ? and where did she end up ?
This summer I did a cemetery run with my aunt Donna(nee Currie, my mother's only sibling) and found Margaret McCartney Currie, her son Robert, his wife Anne Linklater and their young child James Hastie in the Bluevale cemetery ... all on a red granite stone (obviously a newer stone) ... if I had only known the broken ones were there!
Very interesting notes about the ancestry of Robert's parents ... I would be thrilled to find out even a bit more about John and Margaret and their life in Scotland ... and maybe who their parents were.
From various sources I know that Robert had gone back to Scotland 2 times ... I hope it was to see family that missed Margaret and her children.
I am sorry to hear that Robert's brother's, Thomas and George, did not live long.
Did William stay in Scotland ? What was his daughter's name ?
And, yes, it is stated in Robert's obituary that he had witnessed the burning of the parliament buildings in Quebec in 1849.
I am a bit confused about James and John ... it is my understanding that James had died before they had gotten to the land they bought in the Wingham area, while working on the Elora Rd. I am hoping that he is buried in Elora with Janet/Elizabeth and that I find them soon. Janet's gr.gr.gr.nephew (see above message) assures me that they are both buried there.
I wonder if John is the brother that married the sister of Anne Linklater ... and their son John, you say was raised largely by Robert and Anne ? ... this is such interesting stuff ! Robert also raised an adopted daughter, Florence.
Robert was indeed the first reeve of Wawanosh and then also of East Wawanosh when the township was divided ... he was a smart man and highly thought of ... someone Scotland can be very proud of.
I met one of the Currie family while in Wingham this summer and she gave me a few old photos and tintypes that I treasure and would love to share with family in Scotland who wonder whatever happened to that part of their family.
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Deacon, Currie, Chamney, McCartney, Wellwood, Davison, Greer
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JKCIII
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I'm a direct decendant of John. who died his first winter in the Wingham/Marnoch area. I have the entire written history copied from the original family bible. (I may have a few details wrong as I'm going from memory here, as it is not immediately available for reference at the moment.)
I'm really excited to hear that we still have connections back in Scotland. They were as lost to us as we were to them. I am certainly keen to find out more.
I can't recall the exact details from memory, but Mingus or Menzies may have went by a different name later in life. Back in thoses early days school teachers could not marry, so I don't believe Mingus had any family. She taught in a school house in Alma if I recall correctly. I found Elizabeth (Bosomworth's) headstone several years ago, when I first caught the geneology bug. I've been meaning to hit the Wellington County museum, located just outside of Fergus in hopes of digging up some records, but have not managed to yet.
I've wondered if Robert's 2 trips back to Scotland may have related to settling the estates of William and Thomas after they passed? There was an interesting note that he slept in a hollow tree where the farm is located today, before proceeding to Goderich to purchase the lot(s). Actually his direct descendant by the same name is a favourite cousin of mine. Unfortunately we've lost touch so I'm uncertain if he or his family might have additional info. I believe his parents had a group photo of John, Maragaret and the family hanging in the old original farmstead, back when I was too young to be interested.
Yes, I believe John Jr. married a Linklater, was my extremely great grandmother. Her family came from the Orkney Islands and I have much of her written family history too.
I have had no luck with finding any further detailed info on John and Margaret, other than he came from English/Norman roots and she came from a fairly well to do "noble" family from the highlands. No further info on William either.
Out of frustration I've attacked the problem from the other end of history in hopes of finding the missing links. My initial research lead me in the direction of Islay, Clan Ranald and Ireland but recently have discovered that the more probable lineage is that which stems from Robert de Corci of Normandy, son of Baldric, son of Wigerius Duke of Lorraine.
My father recently showed me a book given to him from his uncle JHC that was presented to him by the mayor of some town in Normandy in gratitude for his part in liberating that town during WWII. Curiously, the book that JHC chose from that town's library contains all the genelogical data relating to Robert de Courci (also spelled Courcy) who was related to William the Conqueror and mentions that he slew many an Englishman during the battle of Hastings. His (gr.?) grandsons were later granted large tracks of land in the Annandale, Kirkcubrightshire area for their services to King David I of Scotland.
It was JHC who told me as a child that he was taken up in an airplane once in the 60's and could still see the scar through the woods where the original Currie brothers had hacked their way up through the woods from Fergus.
One thing I have discovered in my research is that our family perpetuates the same first names down through the ages, which provides a useful trail of breadcrumbs to follow. This was apparently a common practice, particularly with noble families. Typically the oldest son is named after the father and subsequent sons are named after grandfathers and uncles. Subsequently you will find a long line of Roberts, Williams, Johns, Davids, Thomas', Andrews, James, Georges relating to the Curries, Corries, de Courcys, de Courcis down through the ages, which I suspect may be our best remaining clue to finding our missing links, if in fact that information survived the many border wars.
Also if you are familiar with Baigent's work, you may want to take a long look at the family coat of arms (another clue?). However the hidden symbols contained within go much further back in time than even he may have suspected. I'm still trying to piece that puzzle together.
I'll get back to you with more details, when I can have the official notes on hand to refer to.
Aspiro ~ Inspire to Victory,
JKC
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« Last Edit: Friday 21 September 07 20:18 BST (UK) by JKCIII »
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Sharron Elizabeth
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi JKCIII,
I think I may have mislead you.
Re-reading my message, it sounds like I could be from Scotland and am pleased to find relatives in Canada !
But, no, I was born in Guelph, Ont., daughter of Laura Currie, daughter of James Harold Currie (Harold), son of William Johnstone Currie, son of Robert Currie, son of John Currie. It is beyond John Currie and his wife Margaret McCartney that I am anxious to find answers or relatives in Scotland.
By the way, I am very pleased to meet you ... we're 1st cousins (so many times removed) as we share common gr.?grandparents ! I would be very thankful for any more information that you might have and are willing to share.
I wonder about John Currie who died that first year ... did he have a middle name ... do you have middle names of any of the original family members?
From my information that I gleaned this summer John married Margaret Linklater, sister of Anne. Anne Linkater married Robert.
But if you say that John died so soon after starting to work his land, whatever happened to his wife Margaret ? And, if his son John was raised by Robert, then that would make William Johnstone Currie, Robert's first born son. I have a wonderful photo of John Thomas' gorgeous family and another great photo of William's family.
What do you know about their adopted sister Florence Currie (whom Robert and Anne Linklater, it appears from photos, took on later in life)?
I have thousands of other questions and I, as well, was going to try to visit the archivist at the Wellington County Museum but I am having knee surgery at the end of the month so will have to wait a while before I do that.
I did drive by Robert's homestead this summer and took a few pictures.
Also have a photo of the reunion of the Currie clan in front of Robert's stone home, 1967 ? ... were you there ?
Thanks JKCIII,
Sharron
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Deacon, Currie, Chamney, McCartney, Wellwood, Davison, Greer
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JKCIII
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi SED:
I got the notes that have been passed down and not too surprisingly my memory is not nearly what it used to be, (as expected, I managed to get a few details wrong). It has been a few years since I've picked through this material... That is my excuse and I am sticking to it. ;-J
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John Currie lived in Kirkcudbrightshire Scotland in (b.1790) "but was believed to be part English".
Margaret McCartney was born in Scotland in 1790 and died Feb. 19, 1871 at 81 years of age. She was from somewhere in the highlands and came from a well to-do family with one sister and one brother.
Six of their children were born in Kirkcudbright, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland. After John's death she moved with her family of 7 sons and 2 daughters to to Carluke, Lancashire.
George - Stayed in Scotland and had a family. One daughter Joann may have gone to Australia.
Thomas - Died in Scotalnd a young man, unmarried.
William - Died in Scotland a young man, unmarried.
Jessie - Married John Bosomworth
John - Born 1819 - Died Feb. 20th 1856. Married Margaret LinkLater (from Parish of Bersay on the Isle of Pamona in the Orkneys). John died 3 weeks after their wedding from influenza. Maggie and her son John Jr. went to live with her father John LinkLater, a tailor, (b.1797 - d.1878), who was also buried in the Bluevale cemetary.
James - d. 1854 Died in Guelph Township unmarried.
David - 1831/32 - 1866. Married Ann Cornyn.
Robert - Nov. 15, 1829, (Parish of Balmaclellan) - May 14 1910 (Bluevale cemetary). Married Ann LinkLater (May 3, 1834 - Oct. 10, 1905). He was 20 when the family moved to Canada. It was apparently he that located and purchased the 200 acres of land in East Wawanosh in 1853 on behalf of the 4 brothers. Unfortunately James died that winter (probably as you said, while working the roads?). In the spring of 1854 the three surviving brothers settled permanently on their new land. Robert was the first elected councillor in 1857 and later went on to become Reeve. He returned to Scotland twice in 1876 and 1886.
Mingus/Menzies - Taught grammar school in Alma. Buried in Elora cemetary.
In 1849 they settled in Guelph Township, near Elora, Ont. and in 1853 the brothers bought land in East Wawanosh at $2.00/acre, settling permanently there in 1854. There were no other settlers there, the country was little but a dense forest, but in the fall of 1854, a Mr. Thompson arrived in the area. Three years after the Currie brothers arrived, the site for the Town of Wingham was surveyed. The first settlers of Wingham proper being the Cornyn families. David Currie married Ann Cornyn an native of Ireland, considered to be the first white woman in Wingham.
=======================
I've got some other snippets lurking around, but that's all I have in "the book" regarding the first two generations. Actually there is much more, in fact I now see that you and your family are listed in there too. Btw: A belated, happy 35th anniversary. ;-J My folks, whom you likely know (JAC and AC) also have a book on the history of E. Wawanosh that has some additional tidbits. "The Book" also mentions where the original family Bible and letters were handed down to, but this is not a good place to get into that.
As for pushing back that brick wall a few more generations? I've been trying for years without much luck. I found some of the birth/baptism records from Scotland, but that is about all. So I've been trying to attack it from the other end of history. Part of the key and facination is to understand the life, times and events of each generation. Speaking of which I also have a copy of young John Jr's diary, which is an interesting read about pioneering in Huron County. Maybe we could tag team? You go high, I'll go low. ;-J Maybe if we could track down some of George's decendants we might catch that big break we are looking for, (which I thought for a while there I had finally stumbled upon) <
As for the reunion. If I was there, I don't remember it. I would have been pretty young then.
Cheers, and good luck with the new knee.
JKC
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JKCIII
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Btw:
If you subtract census year 1841 from Margaret's recorded year of birth (1790) the result is 51. Given that it is also recorded that they temporarily moved to Carluke prior to coming to Canada, I'm 99.9% positive that is them! Excellent Hunting! - JKC
===========================
could this be them?
1841 census- crawford street, carluke
margaret...age 51
john...age 26...ag lab
william...age 15
james...age 14
david...age 8
Joe
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JKCIII
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FYI:
I've also found that the only Crawford St. in Lanarkshire is in Motherwell, which is located a bit to the N.E. of Carluke.
JKC
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johking
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Following this with great interest - I'm so glad you have found each other!
JKC - if the record is from the 1841 Carluke census, then Crawford Street will definitely be in Carluke not Motherwell. The parish of Carluke in 1841:
"Town of Carluke divided as follows viz. on the East by Carluke Burn, on the South by an ideal line drawn about 200 yards South of and running parallel to Caluke Burn on the West by the parks of Kirkton and on the North partly by a road leading from the parish church of Carluke to the Windmill Quarry and partly by an ideal line drawn East from the Windmill Quarry to Carluke Burn."
If you go to Old Maps, you can find Crawforddyke street on the 1864 map, which may well be it. Go to:
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/indexmappage2.aspx
and put Carluke in the search box at the top, then choose it from the drop-down address matches.
You will see a map appear and should see a "main" road sticking out to the East of the town. Pan and zoom in to that and you will see its name.
By the way, for an in-depth study of Carluke around the time your ancestors were there, go to the Statistical Accounts. These were written by the ministers of the time about their parishes and vary considerably in their coverage. The Carluke one is rather besotted with geology and alluvial deposits (!), but persevere and you get some very interesting facts, like marriage and burial customs for example. It was written in 1839 so would be accurate for your timescale.
Go here:
http://edina.ac.uk//stat-acc-scot/
Forget the logins and look for the non-subscribers link at the bottom "Browse scanned pages".
Then enter Carluke in the top search box.
There were 2 statistical accounts performed, one in the 1790s and one in the 1830s-40s, which is the one you would want. Click the link and start reading!
I have found the statistical accounts invaluable for giving a snapshot of what life was like in Scottish parishes of the time.
Jo
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JKCIII
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Wow!
Thanks for those valuable tips and links Jo. Obviously you're a pro at this.
JKC
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johking
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If only I was!
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