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Topic: Who was Jane? (Read 433 times)
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Puffcat
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I cannot see them in Herefordshire on the 1851 Census. What details do you have on them ?
Were any of the children born after 1837 where there would be a Birth Certificate available ?
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Valda
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Marriages Sep 1848
Miles Benjamin Monmouth 26 80
Welch Jane Monmouth 26 80
1851 census HO107 2444 folio 564
Kings Head newcastle Llangattock Vibon Avel Monmouthshire
Benjamin Miles 30 Saint Denuaneles, Herefordshire Head Married Innkeeper
Jane Miles 26 Ross, Herefordshire Wife Married
Mary Miles 2 Llangattock Vibon Avel, Monmouthshire Daughter
Joseph Miles 11 Mo Llangattock Vibon Avel, Monmouthshire Son
ANN WELSH
Christening: 18 MAY 1823 Ross On Wye, Hereford
Father: WILLIAM WELSH
Mother: JANE
JANE WELCH
Christening: 12 FEB 1826 Ross On Wye, Hereford
Father: WILLIAM WELCH
Mother: JANE
WILLIAM WELSH
Christening: 11 NOV 1831 Ross On Wye, Hereford
Father: WILLIAM WELSH
Mother: JANE
I can see a Cornelius and William Welsh on the 1851 census in Wales and Hereford, servants born Ross but I can't see anyone from the family on the 1841 census.
Regards
Valda
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AMBLY
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I wonder if this was William WELCH Snr in 1851 ? Recorded in the Census of Wales....
Village of Raglan. Monmouthshire
Ref: HO107 Piece 2445 - Folio 164 -Page 15 - RD: Monmouth
Address: Primrose Green
Head: William WELCH 56, Wid'r, Ag Lab, b Ross Herefordshire
Dau: Betrus WELCH 17, unm, Dressmaker, b Ross Herefordshire
Dau: Elizabeth WELCH 9, Scholar, b Raglan Monmouthshire
Son: George WELCH 6, Scholar, b Raglan Monmouthshire
If it is, it's luck that there are now two children who are born after the start of Civil Reg, Elizabeth and George. Their birth cert should give the MMS.
Some information on Raglan (Rhaglan, Ragland):
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Ragland/index.html
So Elizabeth b abt 1842 and George b abt 1845
I am not finding them on these Online Baptism records for Raglan? which are found in these records of baptisms. marriages and burials of Raglan:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monfamilies/mprt.htm
But - there are 2 WELSH burial records - 1813-1868:
Ref: 471 - Pleasant WELSH, otp, buried 17 Feb 1851, age 50 years (on FREEBMD Mar Qtr 1851)
Ref: 610 - Elizth WELSH, otp, buried 2 Mar 1859, age 17 years
Elizabeth is almost certainley the same girl who is on the 1851 Census above.
And the other burial may indicate the wife of 1851 William was named Pleasant/Pleasance - not Jane. However - we mustn't conclude it's the wrong family - Pleasant could be a 2nd wife; considering the time-lapse between Betrus 1834 and Elizabeth 1842, that could be a real possibility (unless of course there were other children who died in between or who are living but not at home on Census night 1851)
There is also a Raglan marriage - the age of the groom, his name and father's name fits with him being the son of William and Jane per IGI.
Raglan Marriages 1838 - 1900
Ref Nr: 47 - 4 Feb 1856
William WELSH, X, 20, B, Labr, otp, Wm WELSH, labr
Jane JONES, X, 20, S, -, otp, Thos JONES, labr.
Wit: Wm WELSH X, Eliza Jones X
The marrying couple William and Jane are on 1861 - his POB of Ross, Herefordshire abt 1831.
Do you have this Census? though like Valda, I couldn't find Wm Snr in 1841 either......
Cheers
AMBLY
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AMBLY
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Hi
I take it back ! Here is William Snr in 1841 - searching for a woman name Pleas* in Raglan in 1841 helped unearth them. One may think the surname looks like DELAH, because of the way the W is written, but the name is definitely 100% sure, WELSH:-
I think we have a match for your Ross family WELCH!
1841: Village of Ragland , Monmouthshire, Wales
Hundred of Ragland - Lower Division
Ref: HO107/ Piece 747- Book 20- Folio 25- Pg 5 - ED 22, RD: Monmouth , SubRD: Trelleck
Address: ----? Cottage
William WELSH 45, AG Lab - N
Pleasant WELSH 40 - Y
Ann WELSH 18 F.S. - Y
William WELSH 9 , M.S - N
Petrus WELSH 6, - N (a female)
Again, Pleasant could be a 2nd wife - and the age of William (Janes son?) Petrus/Betrus (Jane's dau or Pleasant's?) possibly indicates that a first wife died between 1831/1834 and 1841.....
Right above this family in 1841 is the following , which I think will prove to be Pleasant WELSH's parents:
John JONES 69, Tailor - Y
Pleasant JONES 67 - Y
Ann LEWIS? 15 (or 25?) Dressmaker - Y
The IGI has a chr of a Pleasant JONES 28 Ap 1802 in Pernhos, Monm., no parents recorded. But on this site:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monfamilies/penrhos/bap1801-12.htm
it records: Pleasant JONES was chr 28 Apr 1802 in Penrhos, parents: John & Pleasant JONES.
Regarding William WELCH snr, b abt 1795 - there is a FREEBMD Death Dec Qtr 1867, Monmouth - William WELSH age 71. And in 1861 Census, this is closest I could find for him:
1861: Llangattock Vibon Avel , Monmouthshire
Ref: RG9- Piece 3986- Folio 61- Pg2
Address: Grange Farm
Servant: WIlliam WELCH 54, Wid'r, General Servant, b Ross Herefordshire
In Employ of widow Sarah WATERS 54, Farmer of 50 acres.
The age is abt 10 years out - if this is your chap he should be abt 64 here.
Cheers,
AMBLY
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Valda
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Ambly
it may very well be him and I'm sure he wasn't particularly very easy to find on those censuses, but there are enough Welshes born Ross that it could also be another William.
The 1851 census picks up 26 Welsh or Welches born Ross.
Sarah
On Jane's marriage what details did she give about her father? Do the details agree with the occupation for William on the 1841 and 1851 censuses found by Ambly.
Regards
Valda
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Valda
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Marriages Mar 1838
Jones Pleasant Ross 26 237
Welch William Ross 26 237
WELSH, Cornelius
Christening Date:25 Dec 1828 Ross, Herefordshire
Father:William WELSH
Mother:Jane
WELSH, William
Christening Date:1 Jan 1832 Ross, Herefordshire
Father:William WELSH
Mother:Jane
Regards
Valda
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Puffcat
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Do get that Marriage Certificate, it will confirm William was a widower and also may give other clues.
You could ask the Registrar whether they also hold a Death Certificate for a Jane - but civil registration had not been in for long when the marriage took place.
Ross Register Office
The Old Chapel
Cantilupe Street
Ross on Wye
Herefordshire
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Valda
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Burials St Mary Ross on Wye
19th July 1837
Jane Welsh
aged 38
31st October 1831
Cornelius Welch
aged 53
4th January 1835
Ann Welsh
aged 69
Regards
Valda
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Puffcat
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Brilliant !!!
He didn't wait long to replace Jane did he ? 
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AMBLY
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Hi there!
Things do look promising! It was more a combination of 'clues' than anything else - ages, names of this William b 1795 & his children in the households , and seeing Cornelius and William there in that area of Monmouth as well as their married sister Jane....which made the Census finds look all the more possible, rather than simply the name WELCH/WELSH from Ross.
Now, as to Betrus (a form of Beatrice, I think, rather than "Petrus" though it looks like a P in the 1841). On further looking.....I would not be so sure she is a daughter of William WELCH 1795 and Jane.
I think she may prove to be Pleasant's daughter and was brought into the marriage., where she was ascribed the surname WELCH in 1841/1851. She may be illigitimate, or maybe Pleasant was 1st married to a man also named JONES.
I couldn't find anything for Betrus under WELCH/WELSH.....but I believe as JONES she probably married George WILLIAMS and died in 1870...........
1) MARRIAGE 1862 - Sep Qtr 1862 - Ref: 11a 69, Monmouth
(either one of the men is mis-referenced, or a bride is missing off the page on FREEBMD):
JONES Betrus
WILLIAMS George
WORGAN Thomas
2) WITNESS - In Feb 1862 Betrus JONES is registered* as a witness to the Raglan marriage of Willam HOBBS and Mary PASK. The other witness was...George WILLIAMS. coincidence? Or her soon to be husband?
The next marriage on the page after this is Feb 1863, so nothing recorded on those records in Raglan for Betrus JONES' own marriage (if that's where they married)
3) CENSUS 1861 - Raglan, Monmouthshire
Ref: RG9- Piece 3989 - Folio 6 - pg 6
Address: Mon Road
Head: Frederick WILLIAMS 24, Plasterer, b Shire Newton, Monm.
Wife: Jane WILLIAMS 21, Dressmaker, b Raglan
Son: John WILLIAMS 4, b Raglan
Lodger: Betrus JONES 27, unm, Dressmaker, b , Ruardane, Gloster
4) CENSUS 1871 - Ragland Monmouthshire
Ref:RG10- Piece 5305- Folio 20 Pg 8;
Address: Usk Road
Head: George WILLIAMS 34, wid'r, Labourer, b Raglan
Dau: Elizabeth WILLIAM 6, b Wonastow Monm,
Cousin: Emma LABAN 28, unm, Domestic Serbant, b Llangibby, Monm,
5) BURIAL* 12 Sep 1870, Raglan - Beatrice WILLIAMS , otp, age 36.
(Looks like FREEBMD have recorded this as age 34. Sep Qtr 1870 Monmouth)
(Src: * http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~monfamilies/monprts.htm)
As always, this is just circumstancial 'evidence' that I feel probably fits , but of course not proven!
Cheers
AMBLY 
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Puffcat
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Interesting that Beatrice and George Williams were witnesses to the wedding previous to their own when there was no apparent relationship.
I have found this a number of times when doing transcriptions.
I wonder if it was a kind of tradition, or a way to get the good luck of a house or cottage to make it possible for a young couple to get married ?
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