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Topic: Manning Bloss BORLEY - Father - Robert LIMOU - fact or fiction? (Read 1174 times)
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5ubjohn
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again,
Yes, I had most of that information but did not have Althea's d.o.b. Thanks.
I seem to be missing one or two siblings and perhaps you can help?
I have:
Hannah Eliza BORLEY
bap: 29/03/1815 Barham Ipswich Suffolk
James BORLEY
bap: 25/02/1818 Barham Ipswich Suffolk
Althea BORLEY
b: 30/02/1820 Barham Suffolk bap: 18/06/1820 Barham Ipswich Suffolk (Alethea BORLEY)
Elizabeth BORLEY
bap: 11/11/1821 Barham Ipswich Suffolk
Joseph BORLEY
bap: 29/06/1823 Barham Ipswich Suffolk
Elmma BORLEY
b: 20/11/1824 bap: 01/05/1825 Barham Ipswich Suffolk
William Decimus BORLEY
b: c1826 Barham Ipswich Suffolk
Jane BORLEY
b: 16/11/1829 Barham Ipswich Suffolk
There is also a listing on the IGI for a Joseph BORLEY son of George BORLEY & Ann GARNHAM:
Joseph BORLEY
b: 08/07/1799 bap: 11/07/1799 Bradfield St George Bury St Edmunds Suffolk
I cannot see how this is connected to our BORLEY family being born at a distance and before George BORLEYs marriage to Ann and when he was only in his late teens!
Are you able to help with any additional information?
I am a member of Genes Reunited and have my full tree listed on the site.
Regards,
John
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5ubjohn
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi again,
Sory, I must have been half asleep when I noted Althea's birthday. It must have been quite a leap year in 1820! Could you confirm the date again please? It cannot be 30th February 1820!
I forgot also to comment re the Watkins family, who adopted Manning Bloss Borley. All I can asssume is that they must have been friends of the family (William WAtkINS was born in Barham Suffolk).
Regards,
ohn
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suffolkmawther
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1341
'Jumper' & Eliza Fulker
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Just to say that the name Althea is uncommon but not unheard of - it did have a revival in the 19th Century and became popular. Seems to crop up in Suffolk family history research every now and then 
SM ...
ALTHEA
Gender: Feminine
Usage: Greek Mythology (Latinized)
From the Greek name Αλθαια (Althaia), perhaps related to Greek αλθος (althos) "healing". In Greek myth she was the mother of Meleager. Soon after her son was born she was told that he would die as soon as a piece of wood that was burning on her fire was fully consumed. She immediately extinguished the piece of wood and sealed it in a chest, but in a fit of rage many years later she took it out and set it alight, thereby killing her son
Found at the web site
http://www.behindthename.com/name/althea
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Every time I find an ancestor, I have to find two more !
SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally from Framlingham/Parham Suffolk)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert and Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith/Barnes LND - Fulker
LONDON/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
Gt-Grandfather Michael Wilson was born in Cork, lived in Fulham London - arrived Boston USA 1889 alone - what happened next?
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cogvos
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 32
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi John,
The leap year is finger trouble it should be 3 Feb. For the whole family I have
Mary Ann 22 March 1814 (twin of Hanna) - no idea why there is a gap, perhaps Hanna was ill at birth...
Hanna Elizabeth 29 Mar 1814
George 14 Aug 1816
James 21 Dec 1818
Althea bn 3 Feb 1820
Elizabeth 15 Oct 1821
Joseph 29 June 1823
Emma 20 Nov 1824
Harriet 18 Mar 1826
William Decimus 15 Nov 1828
Jane 16 Nov 1829
Samuel 3 Jan 1834
As you can see there is a large gap till the last child.
All children were christened in Barham Suffolk to George and Amy Borley nee Garnham
It may be that the 1799 Joseph was an uncle (?) but I cannot confirm.. Though it's more likely to be a mistake of some kind on the IGI. I confess that I always take it's info with a pinch of salt. Yes it is sometimes a good resource when you are stuck, and has pointed me towards possibilities on more than one occasion, but sometimes it is just plain wrong.
At present I do not know where either parent originated from, could you help here?
J.
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cogvos
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 32
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Dear all,
I am restarting this as I finally got myself to the Essex Reg office and looked through Tendring's parish records. I also checked the Bastardy records for Tendring and the poor house records. Result? Zilch. Manning Bloss Borley may well have been registered in Essex but as far as I can tell he was not baptised there, if he was Baptised at all. Equally he doesn't show on any official documents that I can find until the 1861 census when he is listed as Manning Watkins, living in Claydon, Suffolk, the adopted son of William and Mary Watkins.
Sadly I still have no connection between the Borley's and Watkins, other than they were geographically close to each other in Suffolk and the Watkins' were very nice people, apparently fostering/looking after a number of children though-out their lives. Though Manning is the only one listed as adopted.
I think I have found Althea Borley's grandparents on the paternal side but would welcome comments on this;
Althea's father was George Borley. He was baptised in Liittle Blakenham (the IGI lists Greater Blakenham and the wrong spouse) In September 1780 - though I have just realised I did not make note of the full date! His parents are most likely to be Charles and Hanna, but I cannot find a corresponding marriage for them, there is one for 1735 which might be great grandparents? But it is almost illegable. He appears to have had 4 siblings;
Edward - 20 Feb 1775
Thomas - 29 May 1777
Joseph - 6 Dec 1778
Thomas - 16 Feb 1783 - I am assuming that the Thomas of 1777 died as an infant.
Sadly having spent a long time trying, and failing, to tie down Manning's Essex connection, I was not able to progress much further in Ipswich. Still does the above correspond with anyone elses research?
John.
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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Probably irrelevant, other to confirm there were Mannings around in the area - but I have just discovered an Ancestor (William Green c1805-1885) who married a Mary Ann Manning and subsequent children had middle name of Manning.
They lived Barking, Suffolk - which is very close to Little Blakenham etc.
No help I know! But seemed a coincidence i had just come across them then read this thread again!
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cogvos
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 32
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi there,
To be honest I have no idea where Manning Bloss Borley obtained his first names. There are Bloss families around as well. Could it be that Althea was just not sure who the father was? Or did these families help her in her time of need? Maybe she just liked the name. I haven't managed to find an uncle or someone who might have had one or other name yet. They could be out there? Equally I have no idea why Manning is registered in Essex. As far as I can tell he came straight back to Suffolk after his birth. Or maybe not. There is a gap of 9-10 years until the1861 cenus. I have no idea where he was between his birth and then.
Kenton hall, where Althea was working in 1851, is actually mentioned a couple of times on the net - http://www.bigenealogy.com/suffolk/kenton_parish.htm but sadly this does not go into detail about the 1700's so at present I don't have much clue, and I guess without a Rosseta stone style will probably never will 
Still if you find any of your Mannings tying in with the Borley's, or perhaps Garnhams (Althea's mother was Amy Garnham - born between 1792 - 1797 according to the IGI) I'd be very interested to hear!
John.
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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What address was Manning born at in Tendring? I wonder if that gives any clues as to why he was born there.
At the time of the 1851 census Althea must have been pregnant, so possibly went to wherever she gave birth from Kenton Hall. Unless she went home first when pregnancy meant she was unable to work (or sacked) and then went to whatever the Essex address was.
If the Watkins were local to where her parents lived it seems more likely that they arranged the 'adoption' rather then Symonds. But if we can see who is at the address where Manning was born, in 1851 census just a few months earlier, I wonder if it will make things any clearer, or more than likely confuse us further!
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cogvos
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 32
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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What address was Manning born at in Tendring? I wonder if that gives any clues as to why he was born there.
Hello there.
Alas I have no idea. Althea is a housekeeper at Tendring hall in Suffolk in 1851, according to the census, so I have no idea where she was at the time of Manning's birth. I am guessing that it was Essex, and probably in a village called Alresford (Sub district St Osyth - Tendring) as this is written on Manning's Birth certificate. Sadly there is no record of Manning's baptism in Tendring. Was he baptised (if at all) elsewhere? Sadly I don't know.
Whether she was sacked, or more likely I feel, hidden for the last weeks of her pregnancy is sadly not certain either. Manning is adopted by 1861, but I do not know how long Althea cared for him after his birth. I believe that she is in Batalph(? writing on cenus is not clear), Colchester in 1861 (census RG 9 1097) while Manning is in Claydon quite a distance. As far as the written record goes she does not appear with Manning on anything other than his birth Cert. She does not whitness his wedding in 1873 in Claydon, she is in Brighton in 1881 but I do not have a census of her in 1871. Perhaps this would give a clue to if she kept in touch with her son?
At the time of the 1851 census Althea must have been pregnant, so possibly went to wherever she gave birth from Kenton Hall. Unless she went home first when pregnancy meant she was unable to work (or sacked) and then went to whatever the Essex address was.
If the Watkins were local to where her parents lived it seems more likely that they arranged the 'adoption' rather then Symonds. But if we can see who is at the address where Manning was born, in 1851 census just a few months earlier, I wonder if it will make things any clearer, or more than likely confuse us further!
I'm not sure when the census was taken, Manning was born on the 15th July 1851. Althea was born in Barham, Suffolk on 3rd Feb 1820 and baptised there on the 18th June (both are recorded on the parish register). The Watkins Family lived in Claydon, Suffolk (they are there in 1851) so again there is no Essex connection as far as I can tell. According to google Kenton hall is 14 miles from Claydon and almost 40 from Alresford, Essex. So again I cannot figure why Manning was born so far from his adopted family. Its a real puzzle.
So far I have failed to find any Bastardy records citing Althea, Manning or Robert Symonds so alas I am presently stuck
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suffolkmawther
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1341
'Jumper' & Eliza Fulker
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Just to say John that the unknown place in Colchester is probably
St Botolph, one of the Colchester parishes.
1851 census was midnight over Sunday/Monday 30/31st March 1851
Pat ...
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Every time I find an ancestor, I have to find two more !
SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally from Framlingham/Parham Suffolk)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert and Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith/Barnes LND - Fulker
LONDON/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
Gt-Grandfather Michael Wilson was born in Cork, lived in Fulham London - arrived Boston USA 1889 alone - what happened next?
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suffolkmawther
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1341
'Jumper' & Eliza Fulker
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Just a few thoughts on Manning Bloss Borley's birthplace ~
The parish church for the Rowley family whilst living at Tendring Hall
http://www.suffolkchurches.co.uk/stoken.htm
This URL at TNA gives information on other estates that the Rowley family owned, I cannot see anything at Arlesford - but a closer search might yield some information.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=173-ha108&cid=0#0
Might be worth contacting the Estate Office for Tendring Hall to enquire if there was family property in the Arlesford area
TENDRING HALL ESTATE
CHURCH STREET
STOKE BY NAYLAND
COLCHESTER
CO6 4QP
ESSEX
Pat ...
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Logged
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Every time I find an ancestor, I have to find two more !
SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally from Framlingham/Parham Suffolk)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert and Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith/Barnes LND - Fulker
LONDON/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
Gt-Grandfather Michael Wilson was born in Cork, lived in Fulham London - arrived Boston USA 1889 alone - what happened next?
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lizdb
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 9414
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Just been fiddling around looking at the Watkins
Havent found anything exciting, but thought it wise to post my fiddlings, to prevent duplication and just in case anything becomes relevant later.
1851 you have:
HO107 1797 297 19
Claydon
William Watkins 43 Ag lab bn Baylham
Mary 41 bn Alderston
Abraham Watkins 10 nephew bn Claydon
Joseph Smith 2 nephew bn Boyton
Abraham, I believe to be the son of Edward and Emma who are living next door:
Edward 49 bn Henley
Emma 44 bn Dalton
Emma 24 dtr bn M?
Almeida 13 dtr bn Claydon
Robert 7 son bn Claydon
Rosa 2 son bn Claydon
The reason I say this is that in 1841 here are Edw and Emma:
Claydon
Edward 35 farmer
Emma 30
Emma 14
Edward 12
Ezekiel 10
John 5
Almeida 3
Abraham 4 mths
MAry 65 Ind
Meanwhile William and Mary are Publicans in Creeting All Saints.
Now, looking in Henley in 1841 (where Edward, who is probably William Watkins's brother) says he was born,
I see:
HO107 1019 3
Hasles? ? Watkins 85 Ind
John 45
Could this, maybe, possibly, be a relation of William and Edward?
If you scroll through Henley for 1841, it is only 7 pages, there at least 6 Garnham households in the village.
So it seems quite likely that there was some link between William Watkins' family and the Garnham family (Althea Borley's mum being nee Garnham I believe)
Do we know MAry Watkins's maiden name? Could it be as simple as her being nee Garnham too, maybe even a sister of Althea's mum and therefore Aunt of Althea?
Or should I just get a life!
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