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Topic: help with the family line ? (Read 879 times)
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Welsh Jen
Dyfal donc a dyr yr garreg!
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1125
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I would make that out to be your Half 2nd cousin
Your G Grandmother/father had a half brother / sister
G Grandmother/father had a child / half brother or sister had a child
(those children are half 1st cousins)
when those children grow and have children they are
half 2nd cousins
Mind boggling!
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Nick Carver
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1261
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I've never fully understood the bit about being once (or more) removed. As I understand it, if I and somebody else share the same ggrandparent, we are second cousins. The child of that person would be my second cousin once removed - is that correct? If so, would I also be that person's second cousin once removed or (what I currently think) I would be that person's third cousin once removed because we share a gg grandparent (from their perspective)? I know it's trivial, but it's bugging me. I always thought that the relationship would be the same in either direction, but perhaps somebody can clear this up once and for all?
I never gave it a second thought until I came across Rootschat. It has a lot to answer for !!!
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E Yorks - Carver, Steels, Cross, Maltby, Whiting, Moor, Laybourn
W Yorks - Wilkinson, Kershaw, Rawnsley, Shaw
Norfolk - Carver, Dowson
Cheshire - Berry, Cooper
Lincs - Berry
London/Ireland/Scotland/Lincs - Sullivan
Northumberland/Durham - Nicholson, Cuthbert, Turner, Robertson
Berks - May
Beds - Brownell
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Welsh Jen
Dyfal donc a dyr yr garreg!
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1125
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Hi Nick
I use an example here (hope not confusing!)
My father & my father's cousin
(they share the same Grandparents)
but my father's cousin is my 1st cousin once removed (as I am further down a generation)
have I made it worse?
............additional post: just found this, perhaps it will help?:
http://www.obliquity.com/family/misc/cousin.html
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Berlin-Bob
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5692
by: My Daughter. Chatting to find her Roots !
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Graceland,
He is a half fourth cousin, or maybe a fourth half cousin !!
I went to this site: http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/krakow/relations.asp
and in the second box "additional relationships" I selected "show all relationships"
The chart tells me/us that relations of siblings of g-g-grandparents are fourth cousins, so step-relationships are "half" the full monty !
There is also an chart for half-relations, but that only goes up to grandparents ... but it does distinctly say "half cousin" !
Nick, the "show all relationships" chart clearly shows the 1st, 2nd 3rd. relationships and the once, twice ... removeds
There are actually two groups of "removeds", the simple one is:
My cousin is my cousin (no removals !)
my cousin's kids are my cousins, once removed,
their kids are my cousins, twice removed,
etc
the other one is towards the top right of the chart, but I don't know how that is defined (in words !)
Hope this helps !
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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JLo
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 498
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Wait a minute I just need to draw it.....
If I have read your original post correctly, the person you met is the same generation as your grandparents and would be your half cousin twice removed!
Your cousins become 'removed' when they are a different generation to you. The person you met is two generations different from you, so they would be twice removed.
Your G G Grandparents
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Your G Gparents Children from second marriage <-- HALF SIBLINGS
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Your grandparents Their children (who I think you met) <-- HALF COUSINS
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Your parents
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You!
If I have misunderstood your original post, let me know and I'll try and draw it again!!
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukMarshall, Beeson (Herts) Lo(e)wenthal,Kavanagh, Maxam (London, Birmingham) Harrisson, Matthews (London, Essex) Poulton, Philbrick (Essex) Guest, Timmins (Staffs) Raynes/Ryall (Ireland, Birmingham) White (Bucks) Gunn (Scotland, Lancs, Essex) Ison (Tamworth, Birmingham, USA, Canada) |
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Berlin-Bob
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5692
by: My Daughter. Chatting to find her Roots !
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Thanks, Jill, I think I misread it too !!
Who exactly did you meet, Graceland ?
the children from the second marrage ( your half g-g-grandaunts, uncles)
grew up had children (your 1st. half-cousins, 3 times removed)
these children grew up and now i have met one
so he's your your 1st. half-cousin, 3 times removed !!
or did you forget a few "and they had children"s somewhere 
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Searching for Coleman, Moore, Kallnung in London; Margulies, Remenyi in E. Europe; Ancestors of Hessie Stevenson-Coleman-Baxter (Ireland, 1861) and, of course, any other ancestors for my web-site. All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) |
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Nick Carver
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1261
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I think there's moe to come here. Jen's post would suggest that I am wrong in assuming that the relationship is not the same depending on whose perspective is being taken, but I detect a suggestion of a contrary opinion in other replies.
Is there a definitive source for the question?
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E Yorks - Carver, Steels, Cross, Maltby, Whiting, Moor, Laybourn
W Yorks - Wilkinson, Kershaw, Rawnsley, Shaw
Norfolk - Carver, Dowson
Cheshire - Berry, Cooper
Lincs - Berry
London/Ireland/Scotland/Lincs - Sullivan
Northumberland/Durham - Nicholson, Cuthbert, Turner, Robertson
Berks - May
Beds - Brownell
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Hackstaple
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2676
Family researcher
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If they do not share your blood they are not cousins - there are no half cousins - those are courtesy cousins. If they share your blood through common grandparents then they are cousins to some degree.
Of course further and more remote degrees of kinship come through ggparents and so on.
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Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena. Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Hackstaple
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2676
Family researcher
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Mr. G - second marriage or not - that person is your third cousin 
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Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena. Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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JLo
RootsChat Senior
Posts: 498
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Sorry Hack, I know you're a 'veteran', but I disagree. According to my 'Roots Magic' programme, for someone to be your third cousin they have to be the same generation as you. I'm fairly sure it is first cousins once removed.
Julie
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukMarshall, Beeson (Herts) Lo(e)wenthal,Kavanagh, Maxam (London, Birmingham) Harrisson, Matthews (London, Essex) Poulton, Philbrick (Essex) Guest, Timmins (Staffs) Raynes/Ryall (Ireland, Birmingham) White (Bucks) Gunn (Scotland, Lancs, Essex) Ison (Tamworth, Birmingham, USA, Canada) |
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Hackstaple
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2676
Family researcher
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Apologies - I did not read this perfectly if both were grandchildren then they would be second cousins. However, one is grandchild and teh other a great-grandchild so they are second cousins once removed. 
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Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena. Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Nick Carver
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1261
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Which brings us nicely back to my question. If somebody (in a later generation) is the second cousin once removed (common great grandparents in your case, gg grandparents in their case), the second cousin bit comes from the ggrandparent and the once removed bit reflects the different generation. However, the younger relative looks at you and sees common gg grandparents and thinks third cousin once removed.
Logically this makes sense unless there is a rule that says that the relationship should be measured from the earlier generation, in which case they both have the same relationship. I am quite happy with the concept of thinking of the children of my dad's cousins as my second cousins and if we go up or down a generation, I would think of them as as second cousins once removed. However, my dad's cousin might legitimately consider me a cousin once removed as he is used to the idea that my dad is his cousin. Confusing? Let's get this into perspective. A relative is a relative no matter what the relationship, but I sure would like to know the answer to this one.
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E Yorks - Carver, Steels, Cross, Maltby, Whiting, Moor, Laybourn
W Yorks - Wilkinson, Kershaw, Rawnsley, Shaw
Norfolk - Carver, Dowson
Cheshire - Berry, Cooper
Lincs - Berry
London/Ireland/Scotland/Lincs - Sullivan
Northumberland/Durham - Nicholson, Cuthbert, Turner, Robertson
Berks - May
Beds - Brownell
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