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Topic: Martin Tracey, my wife's great grandfather (Read 1510 times)
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tidybooks
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1396
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi all,
My wife’s great grandfather Martin Tracey married Ann O’Shea on 11th October 1883 in Limerick according to son, John Tracey’s birth certificate. Martin died in Glasgow in 1913 at age of 46 on 7th September 1913. Ann, his widow registered his death and gave Patrick Tracey and Elizabeth Higgins as his parents. Both were deceased.
Patrick Tracey married Elizabeth Higgins 11 Jan 1861 RC Killinvoy and Killmain
They had the following children:-
Anne b. 20 August 1864 Roscommon
Henry b. 12 April 1866 Roscommon
John b. 26 October 1868
Catherine b. 19 June 1870
Elizabeth b. 23 July 1873
James b. 22 October 1875 Roscommon
Bridget b. 6 June 1877
Patrick b. 14 June 1879
All records from LDS IGI site.
Where is Martin, according to his death, he should have been born around 1867. Any ideas how to find him?
He is very elusive to find , I think he came to Glasgow after marriage in 1883, but cannot find him or family in the 1891 or 1901 census.
Tom
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« Last Edit: Sunday 23 December 07 00:29 UTC (UK) by tidybooks »
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Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Paterson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Paterson.
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Christopher
Deceased
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10243
1939 - 2009
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Hiya Tom,
Going by Martin's age when he died there appears to be no arguement about when he was born but did guys marry when they were about sixteen in the 1880s?
Christopher
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tidybooks
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1396
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Christopher,
I agree what you say about ages, but Ann O'Shea his widow, could not read or write, so she gave that age when registering death. That is only document that gives his age that i have seen. Likewise the parents, it is only her say so, that Patrick and Elizabeth Higgins were given, I have no reason to disagree, but Patrick and Elizabeth registered all other births and more, it makes me a wee bit suspicious.
I was on a Tracey Clan website, http://www.traceyclann.com/, and I searched on marriage of Martin Tracey and one result was Martin Tracey, Limerick, 1st Quarter 1883 5 334, Surely October cannot be in 1st quarter?
Any ideas would be gratefully received.
Tom
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Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Paterson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Paterson.
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aghadowey
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13589
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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First of all, not all Irish births for that period are on IGI.
Second, assuming 1867 is correct year of birth, not much of a gap between Henry (Apr.1866) and John (Oct.1868)- not impossible but very shortly after Henry's birth and then not long between John's.
Several possiblities (assuming 1867 is correct)- Martin was born in 1867 and not listed on IGI, Martin was a twin of Henry or John and not listed on IGI, or Martin was registered as Henry or John and for some reason went by Martin.
Church baptismal records might help but baptisms can be omitted from the register so not conclusive unless you do actually find a baptism for Martin (which may or may not be in 1867).
However, suspect that Martin was born before 1867 going by marriage in 1883. Quite likely Martin was born c1860-1863 but again, church baptismal records may clear up the mystery.
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InfoTracey
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Tressach Berba Barr
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Hi Tom,
Saw your post. Here is a list of "Martin Tracey" state registrations for 1864-1870:
Tracy, Martin, Mountbellew, Galway. 1865 19 395
Tracy, Martin, Portumna, Galway. 1868 9 492
Tracy, Martin, Tuam, Galway. 1869 14 587
Treacy, Martin, Borrisokane, Tipperary North. 1869 13 414
Treacy, Martin, Roscommon, Roscommon. 1864 3 330
Treacy, Martin, Thurles, Tipperary. 1865 8 746
Treacy, Martin, Thurles, Tipperary. 1867 18 612
Treasy, Martin, Tuam, 1870 19 583
It may be possible that there is another "Patrick Tracey & Elizabeth Higgins". The recommon page is located at:
http://www.traceyclann.com/files/Roscommon.htm
This page also contains the 1901 census records. I think that they lived in Knockcroghery Village.
Did you sort out the marriage record. Perhaps they got married in 1882.
Regards,
Declan Tracey
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Tracey Tracy Treacey Treacy O'Treasaigh
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tidybooks
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1396
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks Declan and Aghadowey etc,
I am beginning to think the Martin could have been his second name, how easy would it be to get marriage certificate of Martin Tracey and AnnO'Shea in Limerick on 11th October 1883, I wonder if he would use the whole name or just Martin. Since he came to Scotland, I have been unable to get him in 1891 and 1901 census. I think I will start searching with his wife's name and see how many are married to Tracey's, regardless of husbands first name.
He was a pipemaker in Glasgow and I saw on the 1901 census that there were a few Tracey's into ppemaking. Could be sone sort of connection there.
Tom
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Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Paterson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Paterson.
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InfoTracey
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 5
Tressach Berba Barr
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Hi Tom,
The record numbers refer to place, year, volume and page of the state registration of births and marriages.
You can apply to the Irish or UK authorities for records prior to 1922.
The Irish website is:
http://www.groireland.ie/about_us.htm
The marriage application form is available at:
http://www.groireland.ie/docs/Website_applformM_240203.DOC
Marriage certificates may contain the following information: Date of marriage, name, surname, age, condition (marital status), rank or profession, residence, father’s name and rank or profession of both bride and groom. Also place of marriage, practitioner and witnesses.
The photocopy version of the record is far cheaper but sometimes they can be difficult to read.
Regards,
Dec
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Tracey Tracy Treacey Treacy O'Treasaigh
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tidybooks
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1396
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Dec,
I got the marriage certificate from records office in Roscommon,
Registered on 1st February 1883 by John Holmes (registrar) District no 3.
14th Day of October 1882 at Limerick Cathedral
Martin Tracey age 20 Bachelor Pipe Maker stayed at Mungret Street Patrick Tracey (Father) who was a Labourer.
Anne OShea age 18 Spinster No Occupation stayed at Mungret Street John OShea (Father) who was a Pipe Maker.
Martin Tracey made his mark x but Anne was able to write. The Parish Priest was James McCoy and witnesses James White and Mary Anderson.
So Martin was born around 1862, which makes him the oldest in the family but I still cannot find his birth registration. I thought his roots were in Roscommon but not sure now. Any help finding his roots would be great.
Tom
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Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Paterson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Paterson.
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aghadowey
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 13589
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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If he was born in 1862 there will be no birth registration- civil registration of births only started in 1864.
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tidybooks
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1396
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Aghadowey,
Thanks that explains why he isn't registered and his siblings all born 1864 and later were.
The priest James McCoy married them, I have done some searching and I can see a Priest James McCoy in Bulgaden-Martinstown 1888 to 1906 but difficulty locating a PP James McCoy in Limerick Cathedral, which I think would be St Johns. I am trying to pin down home parish to see if I can get records from there.
Tom
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« Last Edit: Sunday 23 December 07 00:29 UTC (UK) by tidybooks »
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Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Paterson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Paterson.
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griffiths9022
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi there,
I've been researching my family tree and the names Patrick Tracey and Ann O'shea and the connection to limerick have all come up.
The information came from my grandmother who comes from glasgow, where Martin and Ann ended up. It seems our trees may be connected.
I would be grateful of any information you have on that line either before Patrick Tracey or after Martin & ann
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tidybooks
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1396
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi there,
Yes, we seem to have some sort of connection, my father in law is grandson of Martin Tracey and Annie O' Shea, he is living in East Kilbride but was brought up in the Garngad area, he was one of a big family, he has sisters who are still alive and living in Glasgow, but all his brothers are deceased.
On ths site we are not allowed to talk about living relatives openly, but I would send you a personnel message (PM) but you have to make 3 posts before I can do so. If you can reply twice to thism I will then PM you, some details.
Tom
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Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Paterson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Paterson.
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griffiths9022
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thanks for the reply.
My grandmother has said that her mother Ann Flanagan (Married name) used to talk of Ann O'shea. Apparently she liked a drink and used to go around regularly proclaiming " if you B*****ds want me, you'll have to come get me"! Unfortunately I have to idea who may be coming.
I am assuming the Tracey's and O'shea's come from her family line as she said she didn't know her biological Father. However she didn't mention if he died or was absent.
My Nan also has said the names Matilda McCabe and a Margaret Whitehead- McCabe were also Grandmother & Great Grandmother of hers but I don't know if it's from the same line. (I suspect it may actually be White-McCabe)
She also said that we were related to the whites, who were pipemakers & had a factory in Glasgow, mentioning some kind of explosion. This would possibly fit in with the Tracey/O'shea line as you mention Martin is recorded as a pipemaker.
I have found a W.White & Sons, Pipemakers 1805-1955. 26-42 Bain St, Glasgow. It's in the Barra's.
Although it says 1805-1955 this site was started in 1867 & completed 1877.
They were apparently the largest pipemakers in Scotland, but am unable find any information on them or the company. Only architectural pictures and refernces to pipes being found.
Any help matching/linking these names would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
Michelle.
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griffiths9022
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 3
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Any Tracey/O'shea information would be great.
Many thanks.
Michelle
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tidybooks
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1396
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Michelle,
I have replied on a PM with details of my Tracey line, both past and present. I will now study your stuff. I can verify it is the correct Annie O'Shea, Aunt Maggie has a picture of her on her wall, definitely not to be tangled with.
Tom
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Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Paterson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Paterson.
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