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Topic: Paterson: Benwell baker (Read 705 times)
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Michael Dixon
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2618
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Alex,
Working backwards through your queries....
Looking for the "right" Elkins... the Elkin/Paterson marriage was in 1936. The latest Census we have access to in the one for1901. The Elkins you are after could have been anywhere in England.
The Surname Profiler web site shows the surname to have no "footprint" in Northumberland or County Durham.
On C1901 there were only 22 Elkins in Co Durham (only 10 born in the county) over 700 in all England.
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The Paterson/Proudfoot marriage... In which year/quarter and Register Office was it registered. ?
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The family of William and Elizabeth ( nee Park) Proudfoot were born Carlisle and Penrith.
C1881 Penrith 5141-50-17. (without Frances)
C1891 Penrith 4275-37-8 (without Frances)
Candidate for Frances on C1891 ( 4326-97-3) in Bolton, Westmorland, 15 yrs of age, general servant, born Carlisle
Birth registered Carlisle RO, Dec Qtr 1875 "Frances Proudfoot"
Death of a William Proudfoot registered with Penrith RO June Qtr 1900, aged 51.
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Do not know anything about bakery that Thomas Paterson was employed in.
Did Thomas/Frances later move down to Sunderland area ?
Michael Dixon
Newcastle
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Names.
GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
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MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
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DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND
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Michael Dixon
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2618
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Alex,
Armstrong Road (still exists) ran from Scotswood area , through Benwell area, to Elswick.
Benwell and Elswick were within City of Newcastle ( St John's parish). Within Registration District of Newcastle.
Scotswood lay outside the city, within the Parish of Newburn.Within the Registration District of Castle Ward.
Today Scotswood is part of City of Newcastle.
Armstrong Road most likely to have be named after William, later Lord Armstrong. His munitions etc factory was in that area.
Suggest you browse, online the appropriate Trade Directories. www.historicaldirectories.org
for info on Thomas and the bakery. Directories usually had at least 3 sections.... a) residents street by street, b) trade people in surname alpha order, c) trades/tradespeople by trade in trade alpha order.
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Snippet....
Birth of an Alexander Proudfoot registered with PENRITH RO, Sept Qtr 1879.
An Alexander Proudfoot, aged one yr, was within the Penrith household on Census 1881 (5141-50-17)
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Move to Sunderland ??
FreeBMD reflects the change of GRO indexing procedures to show mothers maiden names in birth registrations, and spouses names in marriages from 1911/12.
FreeBMD shows several Sunderland registered birth named Paterson with a Proudlock mother ( including a FRANCES)
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Where did you see the marriage registraion of Thomas Paterson and Frances Proudfoot ?
Michael Dixon
Newcastle
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Logged
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Names.
GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
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MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
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DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND
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DS
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3133
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Hi Alex and Michael
I have to agree with Michael that the evidence from the 1881 and 1891 census entries is that the birthplaces of the Proudfoots shown on the 1901 entry are incorrect and that they all emanate from Cumberland (Carlisle and Penrith).
Check this out (as well)....
In 1891 Frances Proudfoot was a servant in Bolton, Westmorland.
Possible Marriage Registration
1895 W. Ward JAS quarter 10b 1031
Frances Proudfoot
John Simpson
Bolton was part of W. Ward.
There are several possibilities for a John Simpson death between 1896 and 1900
Possible Marriage Registration
1900 Penrith JAS quarter 10b 798
Frances Simpson
Thomas Paterson
What do you both think ?
DS 
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Michael Dixon
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2618
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Alex and DS,
The 1881 and 1891 census and the birth registration geography ( i.e. Carlisle and Penrith Register Offices), death registration of a 51 yr old William Proudfoot in June Qtr of 1900 @ Penrith, all point to the almost certain probility that Joseph PRATT, the 1901 census enumerator got all the birth places incorrect, maybe with exception of Scotland for Thomas Paterson.
DS... well done on the double marriage.
Michael Dixon
Newcastle ( but ex both Carlisle and Penrith)
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Names.
GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
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MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
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DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND
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Michael Dixon
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2618
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More "fits"
On C1891 15 yr old Carlisle-born Frances Proudfoot was a "general servant" to a farmer (probably in the household, not on the "land") in Bolton, Westmoreland.
Her details are on Page 3, of Folio 97, Piece 4326.
Two pages earlier ( i.e. Page 1, Folio 96, same Piece) was 14 yr old John Simpson, Bolton-born, ag lab, in household of his parents, Joseph, blacksmith and Grace Simpson.
And four yrs later they married ?, then he passed away ?
If John Simpson and Frances had a son, the conventions of the English Naming Pattern, would have required them to name first son after the child's father's father..
= Joseph.
The birth of a Joseph Simpson was registered within West Ward in Dec Qtr of 1895. The death of a Joseph Simpson aged 0, was registered in same quarter.
But all of blacksmith Joseph's sons would have also been required to name their first Joseph... Stop me somebody !!!!
Alex, when did Frances have her first child ?
Michael Dixon
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Logged
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Names.
GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
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MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
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DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND
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Michael Dixon
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2618
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Alex,
I spent a good while looking for her on C1881, but without success.
Although the absence of her 1881 record is a "loose end", it has to be weighed against the positive bits of info on her...
e.g. her living with her mother ( or her husband's mother in law, to be specific) on C1901.
A useful strategy where say there is doubt about which of more than one candidate, is the right one, is to track, back and forward, those candidates, hopefully eliminating the wrong ones.
In the case of Elizabeth Proudfoot... C1901 says born in Benwell,c1851. OK so find this Elizabeth born in Benwell c1851, who had similar-named children also born in Benwell. And when/if you find these, then you can reject the " born Carlisle/Penrith " scenario.
To be sure, about Frances Proudfoot, you might buy her birth cert, and two marriage certs, looking for all three certs to reveal her father's name, and one (birth) to reveal her mother's name. and to reveal she was a widow at time of second marriage., etc
Taking into account the fact that surname Proudfoot is not common, and the geographic compatabily, I personally would not buy the certs, unless the Lotto came up for me.
Michael Dixon.
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Logged
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Names.
GALLAGHER ( + variations).
Areas. Co Sligo, Co Leitrim, Co Mayo. IRELAND.
Ontario, CANADA
Lowell, Ma, USA
Counties of Northumberland & Durham, ENGLAND
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MALEY/MELIA/MALLEY - with or without " O "
Westport Co Mayo. Northumberland
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DIXON
Cumberland.. Brampton, Carlisle, ENGLAND
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