Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses Family History Local History

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Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses

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Topic: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses (Read 1767 times)

newburychap
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Posts: 753

Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« on: Sunday 23 September 07 13:46 UTC (UK) »

I am commencing a study of the many drinking holes of Newbury (modern boundaries) of which there are quite a few and were many many more. If you have a Newbury licencee in your ancestry and can provide any biographical details I would love to have them.

In return a photo of your ancestor's pub, if I can find one, or its site if I can't.

Of course if you have old photos of any Newbury pubs I would love to see them; many of those that closed in realtively recent times seem to have evaded the photographers - such as those mentioned in the press cutting attached.

NPubs_031.jpg (53.74 KB, 720x403 - viewed 394 times.)
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janjim
RootsChat Veteran

Posts: 547

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 10 January 08 00:42 UTC (UK) »

Hi Newbury chap,

My Great Grandfather Charlew New. b. 1855 and my Grandfather, Charles Edmund New b. 1876, both were Licensees of the London Apprentice Inn at Newbury, from the late 1890's approx up until about 1910 when they migrated to Australia.

I do have a copy of a photograph of the Inn that I can send through to you if you wish, but any other information I don't have and would appreciate any research you are able to give me about this Inn.

While on the subject of the New Family, I am trying to find any living descendants of John New b. 1832 (my great great grandfather), who was a Policeman at Marylebone, and returned to Newbury. Wondering if there were still some still living in Newbury.

Jan


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New, Thorn, Bird, Ruffey - Newbury Berkshire
Kearn - Tibberton, Herefordshire
Gwilliam - Monmouth Wales, Herefordshire
Collier, Jackson - Salford, Manchester Lancashire
Saunders - Middlesex, Devon
Benson - Edinburgh, Scotland
Callander - Falkirk, Scotland
Ambrose - Liverpool, Manchester Lancashire, Canada
Timms, Elliman - Oxfordshire, Warwickshire

newburychap
RootsChat Veteran

Posts: 753

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 12 January 08 15:21 UTC (UK) »

I don't know if there are any of your NEWs still living in Newbury but the name crops up often enough in the town over the years. If you want to find any current NEWs you could try putting a message on the local forum at www.newbury.net/forum/ probably in the 'memories' forum.

The Old London Apprentice, or just the London Apprentice was closed in 1937 and demolished c1950 to make way for a roundabout (the fate of several Newbury pubs I'm afraid). I do have several photographs of the pub but would love to see yours - it may be one that I haven't come across before.

The name lives on in a much more modern pub further out from the town centre. The new (1950s) pub has a signboard showing a young boy sewing away - which totally misses the point as the name comes from the London apprentices who fought so bravely at the 1st Battle of Newbury in 1643. A massed group of pikemen would be a far more appropriate sign.

Back to your NEWs I do recall a newspaper item reporting on the Borough Police Court where licensing issues were handled. A brewery was applying for a change of licensee as the current holder was going to Australia. I will look it out and see if it is your chap.

Found it - from the Newbury Weekly News of 9 Nov 1911:
"The license of the Old London Apprentice was transferred from Edmund New, who is leaving for Australia, to William George Bosley."


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Newbury pubs & inns - the buildings, breweries and publican families.
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janjim
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Posts: 547

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #3 on: Monday 14 January 08 00:41 UTC (UK) »

Hi Newbury Chap,
Thanks for all this information, yes my Great Grandfather Charles was the original Licensee, dates unknown, but he left for Australia probably around 1910 or 1911. My Grandfather Charles Edmund New took over as Licensee, at some time , and as you say he migrated to Australia also in 1912. Interesting we didn't know that his brother-in-law took over the Licence, great information, thank you very much.

I only have one copy of the London Apprentice Inn, which was provided to me by the Berkshire Museum, a copy of a plate that was found under a church in Newbury. You may already have this one, I am just having trouble with scanning at the moment on my computer, so will get back to you later as soon as I can rectify it.

I would love to see any other photographs that you may have on this Inn.

One of Charles New's brothers, Edmund New was also the Licensee of the Two Brewers Inn, he and his wife Emily were Licensees for quite some time, certainly the censuses of 1891 and 1901 show Edmund & Emily still there.
If you could give me any information on this Inn as well, would love to receive it. We believe that one of their cousins, namely Arthur Daniel New was born in one of these Inns, whether you access to information on this I don't know, but would be happy to receive whatever information you can provide.

Best regards

Jan


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newburychap
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Posts: 753

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #4 on: Monday 14 January 08 11:05 UTC (UK) »

Don't worry about the scanning - I know the picture you have received from the museum. It was found under the floor boards of the Congregational church schoolrooms when the building was refurbished - along with 300 other magic lantern slides. Sadly there are only a few of the Newbury area but they are an amazing record of the times (1860-80). I gave a talk using these images not long ago. It is far the best available image of the pub although there is a nice postcard showing it in context with St John's church, sadly I have yet to get hold of a copy.

Your use of 'original licensee' is a little ambitious - there were plenty of licensees before your Charles New - the pub was around in 1761 (the date of the earliest known list of Newbury pubs). Immediately before Charles were Daniel Challis and, for a short period, his widow (in a 1901 directory). One of Daniel's descendents works in the museum. Charles New first appears in a 1903 directory. A search of the Newbury Weekly News (NWN) would probably tie the dates down more closely - but I have only done this for a couple of years (you were lucky with 1911). If Charles was the landlord immediately prior to his departure for Australia then it seems the brewery (Newbury Brewery Co) allowed him to transfer the license to his son. This could be checked in the NWN. C New was the landlord at the time of the valuation survey in 1910/11 - which cannot be dated very accurately I'm afraid.

The London Apprentice was owned by Newbury Corporation for many years - they sold it in 1898 (for £2890) when the fashion for temperance made it 'not quite right' for charities and official bodies to own premises that sold the demon drink. In 1922 the town council made one of their regular attempts to close a few pubs and included the Apprentice in the list of 11 pubs they wanted to close. In reality they were trying to close one pub in each of three areas of town and they didn't really mind which. The Apprentice was included with the Red House and the Wellington Arms as contenders for closure in the City. On this instance they failed and all three City pubs survived. There are a few small publications on the City area of town - all of which will include the Apprentice.

The Two Brewers was in West Mills opposite the Town Mills near the church. It was closed ca 1955 (see my opening post in this thread). The building has since been demolished. This was another old pub from the 1761 list. I recently showed an Australian couple the site of the pub as they too had an ancestor/relative who was landlord at one time (another Challis I think). There are far fewer pictures of the Two Brewers, the museum has a painting (fairly amateur but nonetheless interesting) and there is a postcard from the 1940s that I have seen in a private collection.

NPubs_079.jpg (234.79 KB, 1000x1847 - viewed 336 times.)
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janjim
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Posts: 547

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #5 on: Monday 14 January 08 20:51 UTC (UK) »

Hi Newbury Chap,

Thank you so much for all this information once again. Yes I was a little ambiguous in my statement about the "original" Licensee. I actually meant that Charles was the original New family member to be Licensee.

If you are ever able to get a copy of photo of Two Brewers Inn, would really appreciate that.

Regards

Jan


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flyingpig
RootsChat Extra

Posts: 3

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 02 October 08 10:11 UTC (UK) »

Re the london apprentice. William George Bosley was a direct decendent of mine. My grandmother was born in the pub Florence Edith Bosley in circa 1895
I also have a photo of her with her mother outside the Cock in n at Shaw when very young. Her parents were landlords there a few years later.
I will send photos if you wish and also of Old Dog at Shaw. My grandmother lived at Shaw fields which is where my father was born. She married a Welch. My father was Dennis. I have a sort of family genealogy as well


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janjim
RootsChat Veteran

Posts: 547

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 02 October 08 11:14 UTC (UK) »

Hi,

Good to hear from you, would very much like to see photos, and also of the Old Dog at Shaw, and particularly any family genealogy.

Maybe require to go to personal message

jan


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janjim
RootsChat Veteran

Posts: 547

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 02 October 08 23:49 UTC (UK) »

Newbury Chap,

Have you got records of licensees of London Apprentice Inn for the period around 1895. I think the Challis family had it for a while from memory on another posting.

Have you got the date also that Charles New (Snr) took over the license, and then he handed over to his son Charles Edmund New before he in turn transferred the license to William George Bosley

janjim


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flyingpig
RootsChat Extra

Posts: 3

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #9 on: Friday 03 October 08 08:58 UTC (UK) »

Hi
If you did not receive attachements I will send by personal email though I do not yet know how to as new to site. I also have pictures of Williams marriage to Aunt Nell
Yours
Paul


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newburychap
RootsChat Veteran

Posts: 753

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #10 on: Friday 03 October 08 18:15 UTC (UK) »

Quote from: janjim on Thursday 02 October 08 23:49 UTC (UK)

Have you got records of licensees of London Apprentice Inn for the period around 1895. I think the Challis family had it for a while from memory on another posting.

The Challis family (in turn Daniel, Mary, Daniel & Emily) held the license from the 1840s (first record I have is from 1847) until 1902ish. Charles New took the license after them (I haven't got the exact date - yet).

Quote from: janjim on Thursday 02 October 08 23:49 UTC (UK)

Have you got the date also that Charles New (Snr) took over the license, and then he handed over to his son Charles Edmund New before he in turn transferred the license to William George Bosley

You haven't got the spirit of licensing quite right - in most cases landlords were selected by the brewer who owned or leased the pub (the London Apprentice was owned by Newbury Corporation until the 1890s). Transfers were done by application (often by the brewer's solicitor) to the licensing justices at one of half a dozen special courts through the year. Outgoing landlords had no ability to transfer licenses but they would (I think) get something from the incoming landlord for the goodwill and fixtures and fittings that did not belong to the brewery.


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Newbury pubs & inns - the buildings, breweries and publican families.
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newburychap
RootsChat Veteran

Posts: 753

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #11 on: Friday 03 October 08 18:17 UTC (UK) »

Quote from: flyingpig on Friday 03 October 08 08:58 UTC (UK)

Hi
If you did not receive attachements I will send by personal email though I do not yet know how to as new to site. I also have pictures of Williams marriage to Aunt Nell
Yours
Paul

No sign of attached images - I too would love to see them.


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Currently researching:
Newbury pubs & inns - the buildings, breweries and publican families.
Member of Newbury District Field Club - www.ndfc.org.uk

janjim
RootsChat Veteran

Posts: 547

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #12 on: Friday 03 October 08 21:17 UTC (UK) »

Hi Newbury Chap,

Thanks for the info once again.

Yes I too am looking forward to receiving attachments from flyingpig, obviously new to this site, so having trouble attaching documents.

I must admit it took me a while too, when I first got on to Rootschat, it has been a great site, have found so much information through this, and everyone is so helpful.

janjim


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newburychap
RootsChat Veteran

Posts: 753

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 08 October 08 15:26 UTC (UK) »

Hi Jan,

Came across another refernce to a New - William New. Is seems he was landlord of the Chequer or White House or Angel or Lord Craven Arms. The name comes from a list of former landlords (and former names) of this inn given in an abstract of title dated 1879. I suspect Wm New would have been resident mid to late C18th. The Chequer is now part of The Chequers in Oxford St, Newbury (in Speenhamland so only in Newbury since 1878).


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Currently researching:
Newbury pubs & inns - the buildings, breweries and publican families.
Member of Newbury District Field Club - www.ndfc.org.uk

janjim
RootsChat Veteran

Posts: 547

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Re: Newbury Inns, Pubs & Beerhouses
« Reply #14 on: Friday 10 October 08 05:35 UTC (UK) »

Newbury Chap,

Thanks for this information once again, I'm not sure of our which member of the New family it would be there, but obviously related somehow.

janjim


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