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Topic: Help required please LUCAS (Read 759 times)
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Shropshire Lass
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Hi - to get this straight in my mind, I've put together what has already been posted and tried to fill the gaps so, working backwards in time:
1901 - RG13, piece 1779, folio 118, p 36.
45 Kemball(?) Street, St Margaret, Ipswich.
Rose Lucas, M, 48, Tailoress, b. Holbrook.
Harry Lucas, Son, 15, Baker, b. Holbrook.
Bertie Lucas, Son, 2, b. Long Melford.
1891 - RG12, piece 1468, folio 136, p 23.
16 Station Street, St Mary Stoke, Ipswich.
Rose Lucas, Wife, M, 39, b. Holbrook.
Louisa Lucas, Dau, 15, living at home, no occupation, b. Holbrook.
Harry Lucas, Son, 4, b. Holbrook.
Birth: Harry Audley Lucas, Jun 1886, Bury St Edmunds, 4a - 708.
1881 - RG11, piece 1866, folio 79, p 23.
Chelmondiston, Suffolk.
Alfred Lucas, head, 29, mariner, Chelmondiston, Suffolk.
Rosette Lucas, wife, 29, Holbrook, Suffolk.
Rosette Lucas, dau, 5, scholar, Holbrook, Suffolk.
Birth: Rosetta Louisa Lucas, Mar qr 1876, Samford, 4a - 654.
Marriage: Alfred Lucas and Rosetta Louisa Turner, Jun qr 1875, Samford, 4a - 847
(Mistranscribed as Lonas)
1861 - RG9, piece 1160, folio 86, p 39.
Cottage, Chelmondiston, Suffolk.
George Lucas, Head, M, 35, Mariner, b. Hutton, Suffolk.
Mary Lucas, Wife, M, 34, b. Chelmondiston.
George Lucas, Son, 11, Scholar, b. Chelmondiston.
Alfred Lucas, Son, 9, Scholar, b. Chelmondiston.
Hurst Lucas, Dau, 7, Scholar, b. Chelmondiston.
Ebenezer Lucas, Son, 3, b. Chelmondiston.
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Alfred's brother, George was married on the same day as Alfred -
Marriage: George Lucas and Mary Anne Turner, Jun qr 1875, Samford, 4a - 847.
And here's the family in 1881 -
1881 - RG11, piece 1867, folio 47, p 34.
High Street, Chelmondiston, Suffolk
George Lucas, Head, 31, Mariner, b. Chelmondiston, Suffolk.
Mary Ann Lucas, Wife, 26, b. Holbrook, Suffolk.
George E Lucas, Son, 5, b. Holbrook, Suffolk.
Charles W Lucas, Son, 3, b. Holbrook, Suffolk.
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I can't find Alfred in the 1871 - he may well have been on board ship somewhere abroad.
I can't find Bert's birth reg anywhere. I tried all sorts of name searches with no luck so I had a look at the records for Lucas births for 1898/1899 and couldn't find anything there either.
I wonder if anyone could look at the parish records for you. I don't know if it's possible for a birth to get missed out but I suppose any time people do transcriptions, mistakes can be made. Would it be worth starting another thread asking specifically for a birth look up, referring back to this thread so that people don't duplicate the research.
I'll be looking out in the hope someone else can spot him. Fingers crossed!
Monica
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« Last Edit: Monday 24 September 07 16:35 BST (UK) by Shropshire Lass »
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukDALBY - Suffolk and, after 1860, Birmingham. EBENEZER - Cardiganshire & Glamorgan. GARVEY and GRAHAM - Mayo. HUBBARD - Birmingham. MAUND and LEWIS - Shropshire and Birmingham. MORGAN(S) - Cardiganshire. SLADE - Somerset and Worcester. |
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DoubleD
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Hi Monica,
Thank you so much, for all your time and effort for me.
DoubleD
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carol8353
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4 generations of my tree-including the newest one!
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Hi
Thank you for your reply, yes I have both marriage certificates, which state that his fathers name was Alfred who was a Merchant Seaman and may not have been at home at the time of the census, (I have tried looking for the census for 1901) but I do not know the name of Bert Fredericks Mother,
thanks again.
Hi DoubleD
Can you tell us who the witnesses were to each marriage?
Quite often they turn out to be useful siblings 
What date was the first of his marriages and what address did he give?
Regards
Carol
PS what age did he say he was on his first marriage- cos the age given at death is always given by someone else,never the person themselves 
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukRogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset Jenner,Clapham Surrey Kendrick,Liverpool Wensley,Somerset Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland Blake and Maloney from Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland |
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DoubleD
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Hi
1st Marriage 24 yrs, Witness his father and E. M. Moutell 1923. Ipswich
2nd his was 32 yrs, Witnesses were both named Taylor relations of the person he was marrying. 1931. Ipswich
I hope this helps.
Thank you.
DoubleD
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Shropshire Lass
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The 1901 census and both marriage ages all agree on a birth year of 1899 - so why can't we find it? 
Monica
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukDALBY - Suffolk and, after 1860, Birmingham. EBENEZER - Cardiganshire & Glamorgan. GARVEY and GRAHAM - Mayo. HUBBARD - Birmingham. MAUND and LEWIS - Shropshire and Birmingham. MORGAN(S) - Cardiganshire. SLADE - Somerset and Worcester. |
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carol8353
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4 generations of my tree-including the newest one!
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Yeah,I've tried Bert,Hubert,Albert,Herbert, Bertie and even tried it round the other way with Frederick as his first name.
Maybe mum wasn't married and registered him in her maiden name?
Witnesses weren't much help either were they 
Hmmmm,will have to think about this one.
Regards
Carol
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukRogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset Jenner,Clapham Surrey Kendrick,Liverpool Wensley,Somerset Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland Blake and Maloney from Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland |
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Dave Francis
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Cornelius Fisk Goodwin (1880-1961)
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Yeah,I've tried Bert,Hubert,Albert,Herbert, Bertie and even tried it round the other way with Frederick as his first name. Maybe mum wasn't married and registered him in her maiden name? Witnesses weren't much help either were they Hmmmm,will have to think about this one. Regards Carol
I think you may be partly right, Carol.
Albert claimed in both marriage certificates to be the son of Alfred Lucas, a mariner. We know that Alfred and Rosetta were married in 1875. And we have a sighting of Bert with Rosetta in the 1901 Census.
But what if Alfred and Rosetta weren't actually his parents?
(1) Rosetta was in her mid- to late-forties when Albert was born.
(2) In 1891 and 1901, she was living in Ipswich, but Albert was born in Long Melford between times.
What if Bert's older sister (Rosetta/Louisa) was actually his mother?
I can't find her in the 1901 Census, but evidently she didn't marry.
This is possibly quite telling...
Death Registration
Rosetta Louisa Lucas (age 25) June quarter 1901, Ipswich 4a 522.
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSurnames include: FRANCIS in Glamorgan / LANWORN in Monmouth / BLACKMAN, RUSSELL in Sussex / KEARSEY, BARLTROP in Essex / TOOKEY in Leicestershire / LASHMORE in London and Kent / GOODWIN, PASQUE, ATTOE, FISK, QUINTON, RUFFLES, CULLINGFORD and others in Suffolk / MAYOSS anywhere anytime! / GILMORE in Belfast |
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Dave Francis
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Cornelius Fisk Goodwin (1880-1961)
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I wonder if the death certificate had his age out by a year:
Birth: Albert Frederick Lucas
Mar 1898 Kingston 2a 406
(Actually, looking at the census, this one's father looks like a Frederick).
Richard
I would be sorely tempted to order this birth certificate as well. Wrong county, and the year is a bit out, but you never know. Perhaps Bert's place of birth (Long Melford) was a fiction too?
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukSurnames include: FRANCIS in Glamorgan / LANWORN in Monmouth / BLACKMAN, RUSSELL in Sussex / KEARSEY, BARLTROP in Essex / TOOKEY in Leicestershire / LASHMORE in London and Kent / GOODWIN, PASQUE, ATTOE, FISK, QUINTON, RUFFLES, CULLINGFORD and others in Suffolk / MAYOSS anywhere anytime! / GILMORE in Belfast |
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carol8353
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4 generations of my tree-including the newest one!
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Dave
We know that his birthday was on 9th May- even if the year is slightly wrong on his death cert. Family usually know what date the deceased rellie's birthday was,but not alwyas the year.
So a birth registered in the March 1/4 can't possibly be correct
I wasn't sure that we had definitely found him in 1901?
But just a VERY likely possible.
Carol
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukRogers, Rapkin, Phillips - Hammersmith/Fulham/Paddington areas Worth Bailey, Heapy, Burgess. All Macclesfield Cheshire Mockridge,West Monkton Somerset Jenner,Clapham Surrey Kendrick,Liverpool Wensley,Somerset Coleman and Mc Namara from Ennis, Co Clare, Ireland Blake and Maloney from Kilbaha Co Clare, Ireland |
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suffolk*sue
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Catherine Sandys, I will find out where you went.
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Suppose theres always the possibility the birth didn't make the GRO indexes.
Might be worth checking at the local registry. If he was born in Long Melford, the birth would come under Sudbury.
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DoubleD
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Hi
Thank you all very much for your input.
Sorry, if this gives you all a headache.
DoubleD
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DoubleD
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Hi
Is it possible for someone to do a look up please in Long Melford for Albert Frederick Lucas born 9th May, 1899. (Please also see topic - Help Required Please LUCAS) (Sorry I don't know how to do it properly).
Thank you.
DoubleD
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Rick
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TOPIC MERGED
Hi DoubleD
Reading through the thread, it would seem that the GRO birth indexes have been checked but Albert's birth is not recorded there. Are you asking for a baptismal lookup at Long Melford? Baptismal records will not give as much information as a birth certificate.
Rick 
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Shropshire Lass
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In the 1901 census, the Bertie we've found is the only male Lucas born 1898/99/1900 in Suffolk either with Alfred as a father or with no father listed so I think that makes the family we've found a strong possibility.
But what if Alfred and Rosetta weren't actually his parents?
(1) Rosetta was in her mid- to late-forties when Albert was born.
(2) In 1891 and 1901, she was living in Ipswich, but Albert was born in Long Melford between times.
What if Bert's older sister (Rosetta/Louisa) was actually his mother?
I like this idea - well worth considering. There is a big age gap between Harry and Bertie but then there's a big gap between Rosetta Louisa and Harry. That's what made me think Dad was away on very long sea voyages.
Rick - I think DoubleD was hoping for a look-up to see if Bertie was baptised in Long Melford. It would help to have Dad's name confirmed as Alfred, or not! I suggested that she put it in a new thread for that specific information, as people might not pick it up in this long thread, but with a link back to this one to stop people duplicating the work done here. Was that not okay?
Monica
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Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.ukDALBY - Suffolk and, after 1860, Birmingham. EBENEZER - Cardiganshire & Glamorgan. GARVEY and GRAHAM - Mayo. HUBBARD - Birmingham. MAUND and LEWIS - Shropshire and Birmingham. MORGAN(S) - Cardiganshire. SLADE - Somerset and Worcester. |
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DoubleD
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Hi Monica
Thank you, I'm glad you know what I am supposed to be doing.
Sorry Rick if I got it wrong.
DoubleD
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