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Author Topic: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny  (Read 337 times)
Colin Y
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Uncle Fred - Englad XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« on: Saturday 29 September 07 10:47 BST (UK) »
Hello Guys

I am trying to help a friend who's Gt Grandfather, according to the 1881 census, was John Davies, born Llyswen, Brecon abt 1816. His wife Ann was born Abergavenny 1817. They and daughter Sarah Ann, born Llangunider 1861 appear in what was to be come the family home Quarry cottages at Trefil, Brecon at 1881.

I have tried all my dubious online skills to find any of their births or marriage, siblings, etc. I have found a number of possile marriages of a John D and an Ann in Abergavenny but my friend has no real idea what Ann's maiden name was and her parenst have passed on.

Any ideas or any kind person who can find them on a look up would be greatly appreciated!

Colin
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Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 29 September 07 10:51 BST (UK) »
how far back in the Census years have you tracked them - any idea of when/where the oldest child was born ?
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
Colin Y
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Uncle Fred - Englad XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 29 September 07 11:26 BST (UK) »
Hi

I looked in Freecen for Brecon back to 51.

Sarah Ann is the only child listed at 1881 but she is 20 at the time. I know the cottage and her wouldnt have been room for many more.

I looked for possible sblings but again no clarity.

Thanks for your reponse

Colin
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Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 29 September 07 13:34 BST (UK) »
If I have them correctly in 1861, (before Sarah arrived) there are no other kids - so I wonder if she is in fact a granddaughter given their ages ?

It has 'Trevil Cottages' as the address - 1871 says Trevil quarrey from memory ...
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
Colin Y
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Uncle Fred - Englad XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 29 September 07 15:24 BST (UK) »
That sounds right.

John was a quarryman. He wasn't born in Trevil/Trefil.

She was born in Abergavenny according to the 1881.

Sarah Ann was born in Llanguniner sometimes spelled Langunydr.

We thought she would have been their youngest or that they married late or of course it is possible that she is the grandaughter, as you said.

What have you found, please?

Colin
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COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
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Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 30 September 07 11:00 BST (UK) »
Quote
I looked in Freecen for Brecon back to 51.

sorry, thought you meant you had them back to then - I looked to see if I could work further back and then just commented on what I saw in 1871 / 61 - couldnt find them in 1851  

Do you want the census references ?
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
Colin Y
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Uncle Fred - Englad XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 30 September 07 12:09 BST (UK) »
Yes please!

I hadnt been able to find them pre 1881 or post for that matter so anything you can offer will be gratefully accepted.

Colin
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PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG Kents Yorks. BWI
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READER & ROGERS Bucks, Derbys
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Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 30 September 07 12:19 BST (UK) »
1871 - RG10/5584; Folio: 49; Page: 43 - Llangunider
no address shown

John Davies 56  Head Limestone Quarry Labourer born Breconshire, Bulch ?
Ann Davies 52  Wife born Llangattock Lingoed, Monmouthshire
Sarah Davies 9  Dau born Trevil

William Henry Field 31 Widower  Lodger Quarryman Dorsetshire
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
Newf
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Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 30 September 07 12:22 BST (UK) »
1861 - RG9/4216; Folio: 54; Page: 37 - Llangynider
Trevil Cottages


John Davies 47  Head 'Riser of Sand' Breconshire
Ann Davies 43  Wife Monmouthshire



The neighbours are all Limestone Quarrymen....
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
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Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 30 September 07 12:24 BST (UK) »
1851 would be good to find to establish earlier family and/or perhaps earlier marriage ?
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
Colin Y
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Uncle Fred - Englad XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 30 September 07 12:26 BST (UK) »
Newf

Thank you!

Thats fascinating. Ann's birthplace in more detail and John's too! Does the '61 show any more than that? No other children?

Are you getting this from FRECEN or a disc source, may I enquire?

=> two new posts while I was typing... Thanks for those too. I'll review them all together...

Colin
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PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG Kents Yorks. BWI
CHILD almost anywhere
MURLY/MURLEY Som & Dors
READER & ROGERS Bucks, Derbys
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Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 30 September 07 13:00 BST (UK) »
they are full transcriptions from Ancestry ....

still looking for 1851 !

Smiley
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
Colin Y
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Uncle Fred - Englad XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 30 September 07 14:24 BST (UK) »
Newf,

Ok. With what you have found I have gone a bit further and found John came from Builth. I have found their marriage and her birth as well as his ergo both sets of parents.

When I have more time Ill tryt to go beyond that.

You help has been key.

Thanks

Colin
PS If you should happen to find anything more I'll still be all ears!
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YARWOOD in Warks/Ches/Staffs/Salop/Worcs but also in London - Northants, Lincs and adj counties.
PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG Kents Yorks. BWI
CHILD almost anywhere
MURLY/MURLEY Som & Dors
READER & ROGERS Bucks, Derbys
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Posts: 13153
Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 30 September 07 14:29 BST (UK) »
Brilliant !  Cheesy

I dont know the area, but Bulch did seem wrong !

There is a John of the right age in 1851 in the same place (Trevil ~~~~~ quarry ?) but PoB is wrong and wife is Mary - again no kids ....
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

PLEDGER – 1678, Gt BardField, Essex
EVERETT - 1830, Scoles, Norfolk & Epping, SX
OSGATHORPE - 1825, North Kensington
LILLEY – 1711, Ickleton, Cambs
DAVISON – 1700-1710, Horncastle & Coningsby, Lincs
BOWER – 1690-1700, Killinworth, Lincs
CHASE – 1735, Kings Lynn, Norfolk
LAIRD – 1777, Portsmouth, Hants & Kings Lynn, Norfolk
GOWENLOCK – 1850, Carlisle
KEW – 1814, Carlisle
Colin Y
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Posts: 191


Uncle Fred - Englad XI 1908 - POW Berlin 1914-19
Re: Davies, John b Llyswen and wife Ann from Abergavenny
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 30 September 07 14:39 BST (UK) »
Newf,

If its a John Davies at Trefil in the Quarry as a Quarry man or sand worker it is quite possible that he was married twice which might explain Sarah Ann' being 20 when her parents were just over 60, may be she was their only chance?

If you can copy me in on that family please it might be wise. Remember the 1881 had his birth as Llyswen and it was only later that you found the earlier census records had it down as Builth. Its possible that some of the census enumerators spoke to him and some to her or to Sarah Ann and ergo the message got muxed ip ;-)

Thanks

Colin
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YARWOOD in Warks/Ches/Staffs/Salop/Worcs but also in London - Northants, Lincs and adj counties.
PENTLAND in Warks/Worcs/Staffs, IRL: Arm & Down. NZ post 1884 and SCO pre 1800. ORKNEY earlier
COLLERIN aka COLLINS GALLAGHER and COX [RC] Highgate, Small Heath, Birmingham 1840-, IRL (?) earlier
FRYER/FRIAR Ulster SCO
WRIGHT Northants
JENNER/LASCELLES ENG Kents Yorks. BWI
CHILD almost anywhere
MURLY/MURLEY Som & Dors
READER & ROGERS Bucks, Derbys
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