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Author Topic: GUESTs - Broseley  (Read 6355 times)

Offline john2o2o

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Re: GUESTs - Broseley
« Reply #18 on: Monday 08 October 07 19:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Aulus,

Just as I'm in an altruistic mood I've had a look back at some of your other posts. Did you ever find the Collis family in 1881? The reason you've had trouble with them is because they appear just with their initials for some reason - lazy enumerator perhaps. The reference is RG11 0402 folio 34 page 14. Their address is 8 Bank Stock Buildings, London.

With the IGI generally the material in capitals is  reasonably reliable - though should still always be checked to the original. Conversely the stuff in lower case letters that has been added more recently is usually garbage and is far less reliable. The point is that there is a definite difference in the quality of the IGI material in capitals compared to the material in lower case letters!

With John and Penelope there is a later couple of the same name that someone else posted on this forum. Penelope is not a common name so that is unusual, however you can be confident that John Guest and Penelope Easthope married in 1730 are Ralph's parents. The IGI (capitals reference) suggests that Penelope Easthope was baptised in Bridgnorth in 1702 - the name is unusual and the date is right. The other Penelope East(h)ope bp 1727 at Bridgnorth is probably going to be her niece.

In case you were not aware it is an easy matter to pick up the children in a family if you use the facility on the IGI in the top right hand corner - just put in the father's name and the mother's first name. Leave everything else to do with the names blank.

This does have one caveat, however in that if the IGI transcript does not have a mother's name then the children will not be shown. As with everything to do with the IGI use, but use with caution.

I'm intrigued by aunt Florence. Having a relative on the stage about 100 years ago was probably a little like having a pole dancer in the family today - a little embarrassing. Actresses (perhaps unfairly) had an unsavoury reputation  - Nell Gwyn and Dorothy Bland being famous King's mistresses and actresses.

Just one more thing - above I posted dates such as '1737/8' - this refers to the old/new calendar dates. So January would here be 1737 old (Julian) calendar with the new year beginning 25th March and 1738 new (Gregorian) calendar with new year beginning 1st January. If you want to know more it's an easy matter to look up calendar changes. From 1752 we adopted the Gregorian calendar with the new year beginning 1st January.

best wishes John




Offline Aulus

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Re: GUESTs - Broseley
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 09 October 07 18:24 BST (UK) »
Thanks John.

Very kind of you.

Yes, I had found the Collises in 1881.

I agree any IGI submitted records need to be treated with a great deal of doubt.  However, the extracted records that I've checked, I've so far found to be reliable.  Still worth getting to the original registers, though, as there is often additional information there.

I'd found that with the IGI Batch no, you can search by surname only and it will find all the children, but haven't tried the method you describe, so thanks for that.

Great Aunt Florence is an enigma.  We know which side of the family she was on (my paternal grandfather, so Smith, Stevenson or Burton), but there just isn't a Florence in the right period.  The photograph dates to the period September 1877 - 1902, which is when the photographer, Henry Van der Weyde's studio was at 82 Regent Street.  Unfortunately my father never asked his father who she was, beyond being Great Aunt Florence, and we didn't push my grandmother hard enough to get beyond the "she went to London: we don't talk about her" - as you say, similar to having a pole dancer or worse today.  The moral for anyone out there with living grandparents is "put grannie on the rack till she gives up every last bit of information"  ;D  Clearly Florence did go to London, as that's where the photograph is taken.  Given the address (on Regent St), van der Weyde was no cheap back-street photographer, so I suspect she can't have been too unsuccessful.  It's a very glamorous photograph and I've only just noticed she appears to be wearing a sleeveless dress which sounds a bit risqué for the second half of the 19th century.

Thanks for all your help and pointers.  All much appreciated.
Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson
Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith
East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton
East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge
Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens
Marylebone & Sussex: Cole
London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman
Bowland: Marsden, Noble
Shropshire: Guest

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline bristolloggerheads

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Re: GUESTs - Broseley
« Reply #20 on: Friday 19 October 07 21:20 BST (UK) »
Charles Guest married Anne Hartshorne and had three children - Mary who later married James Easthope; Fanny and Charles born 1763 died 1845. There are 18 generations listed previous to Anne in "The Hartshorn Families in America"
Syner alias Taylor from Broseley and Benthall

Offline Aulus

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Re: GUESTs - Broseley
« Reply #21 on: Monday 22 October 07 21:36 BST (UK) »
Thanks, I'll look up the Hartshorns.

Just revisited some of the Guests in John's posts

Quote
George 'Geast' bp 2 Nov 1578 bur 24 Feb 1616/7
m Agnes Huxley
son:
George Geast bp 14 Sep 1604 bur 29 Jan 1649/50 m Mary Haddon 14 Oct 1630
(note his bp 1604 is from the IGI as above suggesting Lindley. The mother is stated to be Agnes Huxley or Uxley - again I do not know where this assertion comes from as the Broseley register does not list either this bp or his parent's m). The IGI incorrectly suggests that he died 1674 - his widow died in 1668).

The IGI has (extracted records, so reasonably reliable) four children of a George and Agnes Guest at the start of the 17th century: Elizabeth (1606), Robert (1609), Anna (1612) and John (1615).  But still no clue as to where Huxley/Uxley come s from.

Also in the IGI (Batch: P011551 ) is a George & Mary Gest (sic) having a son, Robert, baptised 19 Feb 1650/51, which doesn't tally with him being buried January 1649/50.  I wonder if there were two couples called George & Mary Guest?
Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson
Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith
East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton
East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge
Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens
Marylebone & Sussex: Cole
London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman
Bowland: Marsden, Noble
Shropshire: Guest

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bristolloggerheads

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Re: GUESTs - Broseley
« Reply #22 on: Monday 22 October 07 23:09 BST (UK) »
Robert son of George & Mary Gest was Feb 19 1649/50 according to the published transcript!

I suspect the burial may be George snr???
Syner alias Taylor from Broseley and Benthall

Offline Aulus

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Re: GUESTs - Broseley
« Reply #23 on: Monday 29 October 07 16:30 GMT (UK) »
I've been following the GKN Guest line for interest and found that, leaving aside the lorryload of Barons and Earls and such like,  Jane Asher is my 9th cousin once removed.  Must go and bake a cake!  ;D
Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson
Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith
East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton
East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge
Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens
Marylebone & Sussex: Cole
London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman
Bowland: Marsden, Noble
Shropshire: Guest

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline janek1

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Re: GUESTs - Broseley
« Reply #24 on: Monday 29 August 11 23:20 BST (UK) »
I've just found this thread, trying to sort out the various Guest families of Broseley and environs (too many people with the same name!). My ancestor was Penelope Guest sister of Ralph Guest of Bury St Edmunds through her first husband. They were 2 of the children of John Guest (1703/4) & Penelope Easthope.
Penelope Guest (1738/9-1795) was a cousin of the GKN Guest family - however she married 13/10/1774 at Broseley (as her 2nd husband) John Guest (1750-1824) her cousin who was son of John Guest (1722) & Ann Willmore, and younger brother of Thomas Guest. We think that Penelope and her husband John Guest were 2nd cousins, but it depends on how you unscramble the many branches of the  family. They had 3 daughters, the youngest of who was the wife of John Onions, an iron founder at Broseley. Her first husband was John Firmstone, and his descendants were iron masters in Bilston, Staffordshire. Her son Joseph Firmstone worked at Dowlais for the Guest family where he was a furnaceman between 1784 and 1789 before having his own business in Bilston.

Offline Aulus

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Re: GUESTs - Broseley
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 30 August 11 00:54 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that janek1.

I agree that there are a lot of Guests with the same names, and it's quite tricky.  My branch is that of Ralph who ended up in Bury St Edmunds.

Some time ago, I was sent some photos of a Guest family tree, apparently drawn up in the 1820s (or thereabouts) which is great for confirming what I've already discovered, but is not always very clear and does seem to have the occasional error.  For example, this tree appears to say that Lydia Lloyd (who married George Firmstone) was the one whose second husband was John Guest.  I suspected this actually applies to her mother-in-law, Penelope Firmstone, nee Guest, and there is indeed the marriage you mention, so it's good to have you confirm that.

I've not yet got over to the John Guest=Ann Willmore side of this old tree yet, but have just noticed that the John Guest=Penelope Firmstone marriage is mentioned there.

I'd worked out that Joseph Firmstone was in the Merthyr area for a while, but didn't know he's worked for the Guests at the Dowlais works.

I wonder if that John Onions who you say marries one of the Penelope Guest-John Guest daughters is also a cousin via the 1722 John Guest's sister Elizabeth who married Peter Onions at Madeley 29 Dec 1746?
Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson
Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith
East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton
East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge
Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens
Marylebone & Sussex: Cole
London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman
Bowland: Marsden, Noble
Shropshire: Guest

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline janek1

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Re: GUESTs - Broseley
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 30 August 11 20:57 BST (UK) »
I have various old handwritten genealogies for the Guests. One of these is a copy of notes written by John Thorn, Canon of Stoneleigh Warwickshire (1830-1906) which mentions Thomas Guest and John Guest sons of John Guest and Mary Ann Willmore and has the descendants of the marriage between John Guest and Penelope Firmstone (née Guest).

Among these are a series of letters written in 1903 by CEGuest  great-grandson of Ralph Guest about the Guest family - he was hoping to publish a history of his branch of the Guest family but may never have done so. He sent my great-grandmother various family trees.

At the time he thought that his ancestor John Guest (bur 1777) who married Penelope Easthope (1/8/1730 at Quatford) was the son of John Guest (1679) and Mary Major, and grandson of Richard Guest (1647) & Mary Parramore, but did not have the christening which would have proved it.  Richard Guest (1647) was brother to John Guest who married Cecilia Hartshorne (whose descendant was John Guest husband of Penelope)

Presumably the link to John (1703/4) son of Charles Guest and Mary Davis is rather better established? The Richard Guest/Mary Parramore connection comes from  Hardwick's MSS Collections for History of Shropshire, extracted 1902.

Another of these old notes is a quotation from a pre-1908 Groves Dictionary of Music which refers to Ralph and George Guest; and some notes about Rev Charles Henry Hartshorne son of John Hartshorne and Ralph's eldest sister Mary