Author
|
Topic: Marjory Gillies - Applecross??? (Read 3865 times)
|
Little Nell
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7266
|
She had a daughter in 1880 - Margary !
Nell
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24464
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
|
Hi JAP, I am way out of my area up here, but obviously did wonder about Mary/Marjory. What was Marjory's age at death in 1925 Steve? When I chase this couple after marriage I find 1871: Angus 24, Margory 22 (Applecross) 1881: Angus 33, Margary 32 (Applecross) 1891: Angus 42, Marjory 41 (Applecross) 1901: Angus 52, Marjory 51 (Manhely) Anyway I shall leave the Scottish Researchers to carry on, as I tend to get rather lost up here and head back down south  Do hope someone is able to work on with it............. Kris 
I've just had a look at the 1901 census image. The Manhely is actually Munlochy which is close to Kiltarlity.
Youngest child on the 1901 was 13 - so 1888 ish.
Gadget
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Little Nell
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 7266
|
Her youngest child seems to have been a daughter in 1889 - Christina. So she was 40 - allegedly.
1881 and 1891 Marjory is recorded as born Applecross. 1901 - Munlochy - a bit off the track  , but definitely her - Angus has the correct occupation.
Nell
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24464
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
|
Munlochy* is the strange one. It is close to Kiltarlity which give more evidence to support the 1861 find but why did she change to that in 1901 
Gadget
* one of my old neighbours once taught there and there's no way it can be confused with Applecross
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24464
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
|
In 1851 there is also a family that might be worth looking at:
Kilmuir, Ross & Cromarty 112 ED 2 Page 2
Mary Gilles, hd, w, 60, farmer of 7 acres employing one servant
Katherine, d, u, 22, farmer's daughter
Malcolm, s, 13, scholar
Marslay, d, 11, scholar
All down as born Kilmuir
Kilmuir is not too far from Munlochy (I think M is in Aoch parish)
Gadget
added - for those interested:
The relative positions of Applecross, Aoch(Munlochy) and Kilmuir are here:
http://www.scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-caithness.htm
and Kiltarlity:
http://www.scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-inverness.htm
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
krisesjoint
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10450
Nate at 9 weeks
|
OK now Gadget has worked out where Marjory suggests a birth in the 1901 census. Although it seems odd she would list Applecross in 1871,1881 and 1891 and then change her mind, name or age wise we don't find a definite match in Applecross. We have Martha age 3 in 1841 but no sign of her again. (We have an IGI entry for Marsal Male which needs to be varified.) Then we have Mary 1845. At least with her, her mother does appear to be Margaret McRae (no baptism appearing)
MMM Now this Kilmuir family Gadget mentions. I see the Father is Duncan but IGI List some of these births to Duncan GILLIES and Mary STEWARD (Not Marslay/Marshy) and really the place is not the Munlochy Marjory suggests
Here is 1841 entry for that family
Graulin
Kilmuir
GILLIES Duncan 42 Ag Lab
GILLIES Mary 41
GILLIES Amie 15
GILLIES Catherine 14
GILLIES Alexr 12 (m)
GILLIES Donald 10
GILLIES John 8
GILLIES Malcolm 6
GILLIES Marshy 3 (f)
Kris
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
krisesjoint
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10450
Nate at 9 weeks
|
No its not Them
1861 Mary 66, Melcolm 24 and Marsile 22 (Dom Serv) at Grainlen, Kilmuir.
1871 she is married to Neil McLeod (He was with the family in 1861) Marcella 24 - brother Malcolm is there also
Back to Applecross I think, and where are these missing baptisms?
Kris
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Gadget
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 24464
Holy Island - Pilgrims' Path
|
Where indeed? I think my eyes are going squiffy with all the looking and peering. I shall return to it tomorrow but I think we've nearly exhausted all possibilities
I've found a few possible deaths for Margaret Gil*es/McCrae but too many for my SP units to investigate 
Gadget
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
krisesjoint
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 10450
Nate at 9 weeks
|
Just one more thing while it is fresh in my mind. We have this Marsal - male 1838 baptism, possibly sex incorrectly entered as Marsal can be Gaelic for Marjory. Now I really liked the idea when Nell mentioned it but the more I think of it the more I discount her. Besides not having any luck locating her in 1851 or 1861, I think it is pushing it a bit for a woman born in 1838 to still be having children in 1888............Kris
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
|
Well, lots more to think about! And great to have you here too, Nell. If Steve is still reading this thread, his head must be whirling - I know mine is!
Just a few thoughts ...
1. This is perhaps the main one.
I really am not at all concerned about the failure to find appropriate pre-1855 marriage and/or birth/baptism entries in the IGI or on SP.
Recording (or survival and/or indexing) of such events seems to have been extremely spasmodic - and not just in the Applecross GILLIES/MCRAE family.
In that family, for instance, we already know from the 1851 census that Duncan & Margaret had at least one child whose birth/baptism we couldn't find - Mary who was then aged 6.
Also, I've checked out the IGI (not SP though) for some of the marriages and births relevant to other Applecross census entries which have been posted, and failed to find many of the people or events in the IGI.
2. Kris, (re you query in Reply #39), Steve has the Portree OPR entry for the 1831 marriage. He posted part of the image at:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,261448
It shows Duncan's location as Castle of Rasay, and Marion's as Ferrinlea pt. {part?} of Bracad {ale - final letters hidden}.
Steve, perhaps you could
(i) let us know whether there is any other useful information in the entry?
(ii) consider downloading the other OPR image for the marriage - the one from Bracadale - in case it has anything useful in it.
3. Nell, interesting thought about Marsal being Marjory. However, when I first found the Applecross records of children of Duncan GILLIES & Margaret/Mary MCRAE in the IGI, I did search the IGI for that forename.
Marsal (GILLIES) - male - 1838 is the only appearance of that forename in the whole of the British Isles. There are no records at all for Marsail. There are only two records for Marsaili (both female - in the 1860s in Edinburgh Parish). There are some other possible variant spellings which the IGI combines - Scottish records (not a huge number) of these include Marcell (female), Marsel (male & female), Marcel (male & female), Marsill (male & female). Added later: Oh dear, another group of variants which the IGI combines - all female. Taking just extracted entries from Scotland this group has Marcellina, Marcilla, Marcilly, Marsala, Marsali, Marsaly, Marsela, Marselly, Marsili, Marsilla, Marslay, Marsle, Mercella - and, just to complicate things - a 'Marsilla Marjory', and a 'Marslay or Marjory', and a 'Marselli or Marjory or May'!
Steve, you might, however, like to consider downloading the Marsal GILLIES baptism entry to check out the name and sex to see whether either is wrongly entered in the IGI. Not because it might be your Marjory (I really doubt that - shaving 10 years off her age at marriage, youngest child {Christina} born 1889 - though of course it's not completely impossible) but because it might help with the question of whether 3yo Martha GILLIES (no such birth/baptism to be found) in a MCRAE household in the 1841 census might be 'Marsal'. It might also be interesting to download that 1841 census entry of the MCRAE household at Achintraad, Applecross in which Martha GILLIES appears in order. to check whether Martha is really the name of Martha GILLIES 3 and Martha MCRAE 55.
Regards,
JAP
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: Sunday 28 October 07 04:17 UTC (UK) by JAP »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
|
Another thought for Steve.
Steve, you might remember the site (and sub-site) I gave back in Reply #19 re Culduie - which mentioned that the cottage has been in the GILLIES family since 1837 (and still is):
http://www.geocities.com/bjgillies/
Perhaps you might consider emailing the people at Culduie Cottage - not to make a booking but to ask them if they have any information which they would be willing to share about the Duncan GILLIES/Margaret MCRAE family of Culduie or about your Marjory (GILLIES)? Perhaps giving a cross-reference to this thread would help. Worth a try?
There is also an Applecross Historical Society at:
http://www.applecrossheritage.org.uk/
Regards,
JAP
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
|
And just a final couple of thoughts for now.
* If Mary aged 6 in the 1851 census is Steve's Marjory, that wouldn't be a bad fit. It would make her ca 25 at marriage in 1870 - not excessive for her to shave off 3 years, especially given her husband's age. And it would make her ca 44 at Christina's birth - pretty OK.
* Margaret (MCRAE) GILLIES (rounded down 30 in 1841, 45 in 1851, 55 in 1861) has been found in 1861 but not in 1871. I searched on SP and found no death between 1861 and 1871 for a Margaret GILL*ES, other surname or mother's surname M*CRAE. I found only 10 records for the death of a Margaret GILL*ES, died 1861-1871, birth year 1806 +/- 10, include unrecorded ages. I lashed out and spent a whole credit  - all have ages, and all have an entry in 'other surname', two also have an entry in 'mother's surname'. Nothing likely ... Perhaps Margaret didn't die before the 1871 census ... More searching in the 1871?
* The other GILLIES/MCRAE children haven't been followed up. I wonder if that would be worth doing?
- John bap 1832 and in the 1841 as John 8; not with mother Margaret in the 1851.
- Christian bap 1835 and in the 1841 as Christian 6, and in the 1851 with mother Margaret as Christy 15, not with mother Margaret in 1861.
Also, perhaps, the Martha GILLIES age 3 who was in a MACRAE household in 1841.
JAP
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
steve3794
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 25
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
|
Hi Gwenn,
Any help would be very much appreciated.
I have sinse been in touch with someone in Applecross and it's looking like I've got myself side tracked.
All I am now sure of is
Margory/Margary was Baptised Marsel in Applecross on 12/08/1838
She Married Angus Morrison in Glasgow on 06/12/1870
and Died in Glasgow on 08/07/1925
Her Father was Duncan Gillies and her Mother was Margaret MacRae.
And thats it I'm affraid, like I said everything else is now in doubt, so if you can point me in the right direction I'll be your bestist ever friend forever 
Take care
Steve
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
