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Topic: Hugh McDonald 1758 - 1858, Morvern. (Read 937 times)
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DUNMAC
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Posts: 103
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Help wanted!
I am looking for help in tracing the parents or any relation of Hugh McDonald, Morvern, Argyll. Hugh is in the 1841 Census for Achleanan (Achlinen), Morvern, age 70 years, I believe his trade was tailor. There are two others listed there Catharine 50 years and Flory 35years(? Catharine ? Wife?,? Flory ? Daughter?). ( I am a descendant of his son Archibald who moved to Glasgow by 1841, listed as a Dyer, Barony, and again 1851 Barony.)) I cannot find any trace of Catherine or Flory after this Census in Morvern 1841. Hugh's D.C. states: 528/00 0016, 1858, Parish of Morven, County of Argyll.
Hugh Mac Donald, Pauper, Formerly Tailor, Widower.
Died. 1858 October 21st, Achlinan, Morvern, 100 years of age.( Census puts birth at 1771?) Parents, Rodrick MacDonald, Woolen Weaver. Catharine Mac Donald, Maiden Name, Mac Eachern.
Buried Kiluntaig Burial Ground, (can anyone tell me where this is?,) as Certified by Hugh MacDonald, Nephew.
Hugh Mac Donald, His X mark, Nephew (Present), Donald Mac Intyre, Registrar, Witness.
Registered 1858 October 27th At Morven, Donald Mac Intyre, Registrar
I have found the nephew in Morvern 1861 Census, 528/00 004/00 005, Now 70 years and also a Tailor, Drimnin, (Glasdrim elsewhere) Morvern.
My problem is I cannot find My Hugh's parents details anywhere, I do not know who nephew Hugh's parents were and if any of the other McDonalds, listed in the Morven 1841 Census booklet, GWSFHS, are related to Hugh. This brickwall has stumped me in tracing my own direct line any futher back for over a year now, I have been going in circles. Any help would be welcome, would dearly love to know if Hugh had more brothers & sisters.
Regards,
Duncan MacDonald
.P.S. Hugh married in Morvern 1808 on the 20th of April to Anne McColl.
OPR Marriage, 528/ 0010 0044 Morvern:
Morvern 1st March 1808 40 3 crossed out.
McDonald: Hugh MacDonald Labourer and Anne McColl Married 20 April L.
His son Archibald was born 06/09/1817 at Morvern.
OPR Birth, 528/ 0010 0035 Morvern:
32 Morvern 29 June 1817
McDonald: Hugh McDonald resident in Achronich & Anne McColl a L.S. Archibald. bo: 6Sept'r.
Any hints on where to look for information, nothing more to be found in Morvern on ScotlandsPeople, no trace of Hugh's parents in Morvern, ? moved from ? to there. Hugh was buried in the cemetery local to Achleanan. I believe it is still there?
Morvern Transformed by Phillip Gaskell, states that 7 families were evicted by Sir C. Gordon's estate from that area in 1840, that probably explains why our family came to Glasgow.
P.P.S. Gaskell's book mentions that MacDonald of Glenalladale, purchased the estate in the early 1800's, before the Gordon's. I wonder if my Macdonald family came to Morven at that time or were native since Somerleds time there.
Further notes, on one Morvern Census for the family, Cameron grandchildren are noted but I have no knowledge of their parents.
Recently visited Morvern in August and seen the beautiful area family came from, and most of the locations they stayed at. Still do not know if Kiluntaig is the local graveyard above Drimnin with view across Sound of Mull to Tobermory.
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« Last Edit: Monday 15 September 08 07:15 BST (UK) by DUNMAC »
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McDonald: Patterson: Hart: Josey: Provan: Meldrum: Murphy: McIntyre: McEachern:McColl: Cupples: Burt: McCormack: Steele: Laird: Hardie: Robertson: Easton: Sneddon: Skinner: Stark: Shaw: Sanders: Chapman, Gordon, Grant, Littlejohn, McLeod, McHattie: Younie: Ironside: Spalding, Smith: Mathieson: Ower:
Koens.
Morvern, Argyll: Glasgow, Lanarkshire: Falkirk, & Grangemouth, Kippen, Kilsyth: Stirlingshire: Dumfries & Borders, Scotland & England:
Aberdeenshire: Morayshire: Ireland: Netherlands.
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Piglet01
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 661
Captain Bob as a boy
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Hello Duncan
I take it since your original post you've been on the IGI (www.familysearch.org) and found Archibalds 2 brothers and sister. If not - go there - use the 'search tab'. Enter the parents names only. You come up with a box to the right of the page 'sources searched' - click on where it says 'IGI/British Isles' - gives you 4 children - your Archibald being one. I believe that you may find at least one down as a Mc rather than a MacDonald - or the other way round. I've McDonalds from Aberlour who've driven me to distratction with their way of spelling their surname. You can now search for all their records in the OPR, census etc.
Good luck with you search.
Regards, Steve :O)
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McDonald originating in Aberlour. Smith (Aberdeenshire/Aberdeen), Esslemont, Christie, Robbie; Scott (in Aberdour). Crosbie and Willison. Roxburgh: Lawrie, Thomson, Paxton, Peacock, Amos, Robson
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Piglet01
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 661
Captain Bob as a boy
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Hello Duncan,
Forgot to add that the 1841 census is now free on http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Also if you download a copy of the 1841 census for Hugh from Scotlands People, it should give you the relationship to head of household - thereby identifying Catherine and Flory.
Regards, :O)
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McDonald originating in Aberlour. Smith (Aberdeenshire/Aberdeen), Esslemont, Christie, Robbie; Scott (in Aberdour). Crosbie and Willison. Roxburgh: Lawrie, Thomson, Paxton, Peacock, Amos, Robson
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DUNMAC
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 103
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Steve,
Last searched IGI for other siblings for Archibald over 2 years ago and there were no others listed then. I did wonder if there was a John as lots of the next generation in Glasgow were witnessed on their OPR Births by a John MacDonald. I had also wondered why I could not find a Duncan as most of my line had one somewhere. Thank you for pointing me back to the IGI Steve, I will search ScotlandsPeople again for the other OPR's and can now try for other Marriage records too, will also recheck IGI for sibling marriages.
Hugh's 1841 Census as far as I can remember, only marks him as Head, the other two are blank as to relationship, will recheck copy ASAP.
Thanks again Steve,
Regards,
Duncan.
P.S. John & Duncan check out but cannot find Christina as yet, will post results as and when found. Thanks Steve. Nothing on Marriages in IGI Files.
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McDonald: Patterson: Hart: Josey: Provan: Meldrum: Murphy: McIntyre: McEachern:McColl: Cupples: Burt: McCormack: Steele: Laird: Hardie: Robertson: Easton: Sneddon: Skinner: Stark: Shaw: Sanders: Chapman, Gordon, Grant, Littlejohn, McLeod, McHattie: Younie: Ironside: Spalding, Smith: Mathieson: Ower:
Koens.
Morvern, Argyll: Glasgow, Lanarkshire: Falkirk, & Grangemouth, Kippen, Kilsyth: Stirlingshire: Dumfries & Borders, Scotland & England:
Aberdeenshire: Morayshire: Ireland: Netherlands.
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Piglet01
RootsChat Veteran
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Posts: 661
Captain Bob as a boy
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Hello Duncan,
Glad to help. As you'll be aware the IGI isn't infallible. Although there are the 4 children registered, there may have been more. I know this from personal experience. At the end of the day we can only do our best and keep battering away.
Good luck. Regards, Steve :O)
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McDonald originating in Aberlour. Smith (Aberdeenshire/Aberdeen), Esslemont, Christie, Robbie; Scott (in Aberdour). Crosbie and Willison. Roxburgh: Lawrie, Thomson, Paxton, Peacock, Amos, Robson
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DUNMAC
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 103
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Steve,
Two found on Scotlandspeople are:
OPR Birth, 528/ 0010 0025 Morvern:
11th. of March, 1813:
McDonald: Hugh Macdonald(hard to read bit) Needranger?? Achronich & Anne McColl a L. Son Duncan. bo: 11 March.
OPR Birth, 528/ 0020 0014 Morvern:
23rd. of April, 1825:
Donald: Hugh Macdonald Achronich & Anne McColl a L.S. John born.
No Christina shows up in any name spelling combination of surname and general search for children to MacDonald/McDonald & McColl brings up no further children in OPR Births at Morvern, or Argyll.
All children found to parents born Achronich on OPR's ? is this modern Achranich ? Thanks again Steve, you have refired the drive for more information on my own line, just as I was going to quit forever.
Have you tried the Libndex site, now back online for your N.E. MacDonalds. Had great finds there for my wife's McHatties, Smiths, Mathiesons & Younies, plus lots in FreeCen.
Will post any further finds, wish there was a way to get in touch with whomever posted my ancestors on the IGI, as all the years I've searched, no other MacDonald living relation has been found. Too many MacDonalds in Glasgow post registration to trace other family lines, 2 out of 9 only found, from Archibald's children, my own G Grandfather Duncan and 1 sister Catherine, who had married a Skinner, noted on a D.C.
Good luck with your searches.
Regards,
Duncan.
P.S. Possible OPR Marriage of Duncan, 10/07/1849.
Duncan Mac Donald Knock and Catherine Cameron Married 10 July.
528/ 0020 0111 Morvern.
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« Last Edit: Thursday 22 November 07 22:30 GMT (UK) by DUNMAC »
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McDonald: Patterson: Hart: Josey: Provan: Meldrum: Murphy: McIntyre: McEachern:McColl: Cupples: Burt: McCormack: Steele: Laird: Hardie: Robertson: Easton: Sneddon: Skinner: Stark: Shaw: Sanders: Chapman, Gordon, Grant, Littlejohn, McLeod, McHattie: Younie: Ironside: Spalding, Smith: Mathieson: Ower:
Koens.
Morvern, Argyll: Glasgow, Lanarkshire: Falkirk, & Grangemouth, Kippen, Kilsyth: Stirlingshire: Dumfries & Borders, Scotland & England:
Aberdeenshire: Morayshire: Ireland: Netherlands.
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Piglet01
RootsChat Veteran
Offline
Posts: 661
Captain Bob as a boy
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Hello Duncan
Thanks for the info re Libindex. Yes, have used it and found some useful leads.. However - have lots of info re 'my McDonalds' which I need to update. A couple of errors on Libindex and lots of info which I need to update for future generations.
All the best for your searching. Regards, Steve :O)
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McDonald originating in Aberlour. Smith (Aberdeenshire/Aberdeen), Esslemont, Christie, Robbie; Scott (in Aberdour). Crosbie and Willison. Roxburgh: Lawrie, Thomson, Paxton, Peacock, Amos, Robson
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DUNMAC
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 103
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Steve,
I've noticed over the years of searching that the spelling changes in names on documents, are more the result of whatever registrar was recording the details. I have seen documents start of as Macdonald, go to McDonald in the next line and end up as just M'Donald or Donald. In my older documents Macdonald or Mac Donald is more common but when family gets to Glasgow and other parts of the Central Belt of Scotland, McDonald is found more often. As both Mac or Mc make no difference in how name sounds, both taken from , I believe, Mhaich ( Son of) and a lot of illiterate recipients would not have known which way it should have been spelt, result would be in the hands of registrars. Gaelic spelling in the past had great variations in different time periods.
Regards,
Donchadh Mhaich Dhomnuill.
P.S. I know there are more modern spellings of names nowadays and I'm not a Gaelic speaker, more's the pity, grandfather was the last in the family.
P.P.S. Have now found another daughter on 1851 Census, 528/00 004//00 006:.
Isobel, Daughter, Unmarried, 57years, Pauper Servant, Argyllshire, Morven. Hugh is noted as, Head, Widower, 78years, (This time, age never the same, on any document.) Tailor Pauper, Argyllshire, Morven. How do you go about getting details of Parish Pauper payements? They are both still noted as living in Achlinen, Morvern. There are also noted a John & Margaret McDonald (21 & 20years) working as two of four servants, in the household of Jean & Helen Ramage (16 & 13years) from Dumfriesshire, next entry after Hugh's; might they be further relations?, in Achlinen. Had only looked at FreeCen report for 1851 before and missed extra detail.
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« Last Edit: Saturday 01 December 07 10:01 GMT (UK) by DUNMAC »
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McDonald: Patterson: Hart: Josey: Provan: Meldrum: Murphy: McIntyre: McEachern:McColl: Cupples: Burt: McCormack: Steele: Laird: Hardie: Robertson: Easton: Sneddon: Skinner: Stark: Shaw: Sanders: Chapman, Gordon, Grant, Littlejohn, McLeod, McHattie: Younie: Ironside: Spalding, Smith: Mathieson: Ower:
Koens.
Morvern, Argyll: Glasgow, Lanarkshire: Falkirk, & Grangemouth, Kippen, Kilsyth: Stirlingshire: Dumfries & Borders, Scotland & England:
Aberdeenshire: Morayshire: Ireland: Netherlands.
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Andrew Simpson
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Buried Kiluntaig Burial Ground, as Certified by Hugh MacDonald, Nephew.
Hugh Mac Donald, His X mark, Nephew (Present), Donald Mac Intyre, Registrar, Witness.
Registered 1858 October 27th At Morven, Donald Mac Intyre, Registrar
I have found the nephew in Morvern 1861 Census, 528/00 004/00 005, Now 70 years and also a Tailor, Drimnin, (Glasdrim elsewhere) Morvern.
Hugh MacLachlan (the nephew) was born about 1796 (Morvern) and died 1874 at Drimnin. From his death certificate his parents were Neil MacDonald and Sarah McDougall, both of whom I can't trace.
He married Margaret MacDonald (maiden name also MacDonald) (b. about 1790, d. 1883). I have no marriage record. However I do know that the couple had eight children, almost all of whom lived and died in Morvern.
My earliest record for Hugh is 1826 as a tenant farmer at Druimbuidhe, by 1832 he is a crofter at Achleanan, and then he moves permanently to Glasdrum, Drimnin by 1841. From about 1841 onwards, he becomes a tailor and stays in the same house until his death. Some church records also list him at Bonnavoulin, but I think this is just an alternate name for the Glasdrum location.
This Hugh MacDonald would be my ggg grandfather.
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DUNMAC
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 103
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Andrew,
A wee bit lost with your message?: Hugh MacLachlan is the nephew? parents not married? so is Neil brother of my Hugh, tailor who died age 100?
Bonnavoulin is on another estate in Morvern (Mungasdail) just slightly further south and nearer the coast on the Sound of Mull, 12 families listed in 1841 Census, one a Donald M'Lachlan? related, 5 M'Donalds in 3 households? related.
Does all your information relate to the nephew? and you are a descendant of the nephew?.
I do not know if MacDonald family (my Hugh C.1758, son of Rodrick ) are native to Morvern as I cannot find any other deaths with same parents names, though this unlikely as he lived to such a great age. Do you know anything else about Neil, any other siblings (your Hugh's father)? place of birth, inkling?
Any interesting family tales? you can pass on?
Morvern Transformed by Philip Gaskell has a full listing of Morvern villages and map of where they are situated. The other Morvern book by McLeod has the full 1841 Census for Morvern.
Thanks for more food for thought.
Duncan.
P.S. I have found D.C. for a Peggy (Margaret) McDonald 20 11 1883 in Morvern widow of Hugh McDonald, Crofter, age 93, daughter of Neil McDonald & Peggy McDougall, signed by son John McDonald, is this your Margaret?
Druimbuidhe where Hugh is found in 1826 is on the Loch Sunart side of Morvern facing towards Oronsay less than 3 miles from Achleanan.
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« Last Edit: Wednesday 26 December 07 18:50 GMT (UK) by DUNMAC »
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McDonald: Patterson: Hart: Josey: Provan: Meldrum: Murphy: McIntyre: McEachern:McColl: Cupples: Burt: McCormack: Steele: Laird: Hardie: Robertson: Easton: Sneddon: Skinner: Stark: Shaw: Sanders: Chapman, Gordon, Grant, Littlejohn, McLeod, McHattie: Younie: Ironside: Spalding, Smith: Mathieson: Ower:
Koens.
Morvern, Argyll: Glasgow, Lanarkshire: Falkirk, & Grangemouth, Kippen, Kilsyth: Stirlingshire: Dumfries & Borders, Scotland & England:
Aberdeenshire: Morayshire: Ireland: Netherlands.
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Andrew Simpson
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Andrew,
A wee bit lost with your message?: Hugh MacLachlan is the nephew? parents not married? so is Neil brother of my Hugh, tailor who died age 100?
Yes, my Hugh MacLachlan is the the nephew. I wouldn't say that he wasn't married; I just can't find a record.
Does all your information relate to the nephew? and you are a descendant of the nephew?.
I do not know if MacDonald family (my Hugh C.1758, son of Rodrick ) are native to Morvern as I cannot find any other deaths with same parents names, though this unlikely as he lived to such a great age. Do you know anything else about Neil, any other siblings (your Hugh's father)? place of birth, inkling?
Yes, relates to the nephew. These people look to have been crofters and tenants. As such, I doubt they moved around very much until the clearances, because they had no desire nor ability to move. Death records in Morvern (prior to 1855) are virtually nonexistent to my knowledge.
I just wish the OPR would go back beyond 1803 in Morvern...
There is an Argyll Estate Census 1779, that I have not yet looked at. The LDS church have copies available.
P.S. I have found D.C. for a Peggy (Margaret) McDonald 20 11 1883 in Morvern widow of Hugh McDonald, Crofter, age 93, daughter of Neil McDonald & Peggy McDougall, signed by son John McDonald, is this your Margaret?
Yes. The son never married, and died 1912 in Drimnin.
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DUNMAC
RootsChat Member
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Posts: 103
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Andrew,
What's confusing me is the MacLachlan name as D.C. of Hugh gives name of nephew as Hugh McDonald as does later Census and you say he is son of Neil McDonald? Have noted D.C 1874 of Hugh McDonald in Morvern, not Hugh McLachlan.
Regards,
Duncan.
P.S. Have OPR'S for 6 children of Hugh & Peggy and a further one noted in 1861 Census.
Ann 1825c Census,
Colin 1826 OPR,
----- 1828 OPR,
Peggy 1829 OPR,
John 1832 OPR,
Neil 1835, OPR,
Susan 1837 OPR.
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McDonald: Patterson: Hart: Josey: Provan: Meldrum: Murphy: McIntyre: McEachern:McColl: Cupples: Burt: McCormack: Steele: Laird: Hardie: Robertson: Easton: Sneddon: Skinner: Stark: Shaw: Sanders: Chapman, Gordon, Grant, Littlejohn, McLeod, McHattie: Younie: Ironside: Spalding, Smith: Mathieson: Ower:
Koens.
Morvern, Argyll: Glasgow, Lanarkshire: Falkirk, & Grangemouth, Kippen, Kilsyth: Stirlingshire: Dumfries & Borders, Scotland & England:
Aberdeenshire: Morayshire: Ireland: Netherlands.
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DUNMAC
RootsChat Member
Offline
Posts: 103
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Andrew,
Can you supply Children of your Hugh's Names and D.O.B.'s and quick line of descent to yourself.
Cheers,
Duncan.
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McDonald: Patterson: Hart: Josey: Provan: Meldrum: Murphy: McIntyre: McEachern:McColl: Cupples: Burt: McCormack: Steele: Laird: Hardie: Robertson: Easton: Sneddon: Skinner: Stark: Shaw: Sanders: Chapman, Gordon, Grant, Littlejohn, McLeod, McHattie: Younie: Ironside: Spalding, Smith: Mathieson: Ower:
Koens.
Morvern, Argyll: Glasgow, Lanarkshire: Falkirk, & Grangemouth, Kippen, Kilsyth: Stirlingshire: Dumfries & Borders, Scotland & England:
Aberdeenshire: Morayshire: Ireland: Netherlands.
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Andrew Simpson
RootsChat Extra
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Posts: 4
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Andrew, Can you supply Children of your Hugh's Names and D.O.B.'s and quick line of descent to yourself. Cheers, Duncan.
(Parents from death certificate : Neil Macdonald & Sarah MacDougall)
*Married Margaret MacDonald (b. about 1790, Morvern, d. 1883, Drimnin)
(Parents from death certificate : Neil Macdonald & Margaret MacDougall)
*Children:
Allan – b 1824 Drimnin, d. 1905, Morvern (Farmer, married Helen Gray)
Ann – b. 1825, d. after 1881 Morvern? (Not married before 1881)
Colin – b. 1826, Drimnin, d. 1873, Ardtornish (Gardener, married Elizabeth MacLachlan)
Margaret – b. 1828 Druimbuidhe (Child to John Cameron, Lochaline Innkeeper)
Dugald – b. 1831, d. 1888, Morvern (Not married)
John – b. 1832, Achleanan, d. 1912, Drimnin (Not married)
Neil – b. 1835, Bonnavoulin, d. before 1841? (Not in the 1841 Census)
Susan – b. 1837, Bonnavoulin, d.?
Note that 'Morvern Transformed' says that Bonnavoulin = Glasdrum around 1830 to 1840. I think they were in Glasdrum by 1835. The OPR record for Margaret says 'Drimbuy', which is apparently Druimbuidhe!
I'll send you a PM with the later details.
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