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Topic: can't find conwil elvet 1841 census - COMPLETED (Read 958 times)
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manaw
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I can find 16 John Davies' whose births were registered at carmarthen in 1858 which is the year I think he was born.
there is 1 john phillip davies registered at llandeilofawr in 1857.
the census shows that my john p davies was born either in llangathen or llanfynydd (2 differnt censuses say different birth locations for the same person).
my question is where would someone born in llangathen or llanfynydd have their birth registered? my instinct is to say carmarthen because his father came from conwil elvet but I would probably have to go and look at the records in person because it could get expensive to order all the certificates.
however it might be worth taking a punt on john phillip's cert if it turns out that people born in llangathen or llanfynydd were registered in llandeilofawr.
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3630
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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both Llangathen and Llanffynydd come under Carmarthen. If youre using FreeBmd, click on the registration district you're interested in, then the highlighted here on the following page, you'll get a list of the parishes that are covered by that registration district.
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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manaw
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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looks like they were llandeilofawr pre 1935
I've sent off for the birth cert - it's a good job they gave him two Christian names - John Davies is about as common as they get.
Also his birth was registered in June whilst the census was in April so the fact that he was 3 in the 1861 census is consistent with this.
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manaw
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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The birth certificate for John Phillip Davies tells us that his mother's maiden name was Evans. According to the census she lived previously at Pantyffynnon farm, Llangeler, with her parents John and Margaret.
I think I'm going to have to spend some time reading through the archives re FfynnonHenry and Penybont churches as I still don't see the link between Benjamin and Daniel. A list of the family of Daniel would be useful - by the time of the 1841 census he is an old man and his children will have mostly left home.
thanks to everyone for their help and pointers.
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« Last Edit: Sunday 18 November 07 17:08 UTC (UK) by manaw »
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manaw
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have found john p' birth cert. his mother was mary evans of pantyffynnon, llangeler. also believe I have found the marriage cert of benjamin & mary, registered in newcastle emlyn - it is on it's way so hopefully this will help. I had previously been looking for marriages registered in carmarthen.
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manaw
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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bit of success. not only have I ofund John P but I also have the marriage certificate of his parents benjamin and mary and it shows his father as being from tirsime in conwil elved and her parents being john and mary evans of pantyffynon in llangeler. (not sure about the exact derivation of tirsime - it is obviously ty'r s.... - just can't make out the last few letters in the word on the marriage cert - I can certainly find it in the 1841 census)
The 1851 record of pantyffynon shows that mary's mother Margaret was from Llanfihangel. The link I am looking for is between Margaret and the person I think is her father - Daniel Davies of Talgoed, Llanfihangel ar Arth.
What I need to do now is to check the marriage records of Margaret and John Evans at the Llanfihangel Parish Church which is St Michael's. I assume that being from Llanfihangel Margaret's marriage would have been recorded here.
I live in Lincoln but am planning a trip down to Carmarthenshire in February. If anyone had access to the marriage records of Llanfihangel from circa 1820 and could determine whether Margaret's parents were indeed Daniel and Ann I would be most grateful. Otherwise I will wait until Feb.
Diolch
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osprey
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3630
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Glad you're getting somewhere with this. Unfortunately, fathers' names aren't given on pre-1837 marriages. One of the parents might appear as a witness or there might be some other useful info on the parish record.
I think Welsh Lady has some/all Carmarthenshire marriages for that period, so hope she sees this.
Have fun at the archives!
ps - what is the house name on the census? It's making me think of an Italian pudding...
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Cornwall: Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Kellett, Tebb
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manaw
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 16
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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thanks osprey. the name appears in 1841 and 1851 as tirsime and tyrshyme. I can't find it on the OS map but I have found other houses adjacent to it in the census. It is near cwmduad and is either no longer in existence or has had it's name changed (probably to something like dunroamin  )
the grid ref is SN 374 306 GB Grid and the nearby houses are danygribin and llyn y gwair
I did make some more progress last night in that I found pantyffynnon farm. encouragingly it is only about a mile or so from talgoed which is where daniel davies lived so it is looking increasingly likely that margaret was his daughter. took me some time to find pantyffynnon because it is supposedly in Llangeler but is actually nowhere near the village itself. grid ref SN 423 376 GB Grid is midway between the two houses.
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« Last Edit: Friday 18 January 08 20:33 UTC (UK) by manaw »
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AndyT
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 2
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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I have just found this Thread whilst searching the net and Tyrshyme, Cwmdaud does still exist.
My family the Thomas's lived at the farm from around 1871 onwards.
I have actually visited the Farm and have some photos if you are interested.
Andy.
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