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Topic: Hastings....Stratford Place vs White Rock (Read 1948 times)
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UncleLarry
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Hi Chris:
Now that is pretty cool, imagine being able to look at the building that 150 years ago was a shop that (probably) was one my ancestors. An inside picture, ableit different, would also be cool. I do appreicate it Chris, very much. Again thanks doesn't seem like enough. Perhaps one of these days (or years) I will actually get to the UK and I'll buy you a beer, or two, or.....
Larry
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Chris in 1066Land
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Hi again
I have had an e-mail from Bob the foreman (he is very interested in Local History) and we have made arrangements that he will show me around the place on Thursday next the 8th November.
Getting quite excited at the thought of looking around and taking lots of pictures.
Some of the architectual features especially the ceilings are listed, so they just cant touch them, just cover them up - who knows when anyone will ever see them again; but my little camera will have recorded them.
Great in it
Chris in 1066
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« Last Edit: Sunday 04 November 07 09:55 GMT (UK) by Chris in 1066Land »
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UncleLarry
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Wonderful, be looking forward to it. And it is so nice that preservation is a key word in that area!
Thanks much, Larry
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Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Larry
Found this picture taken in c1905 amongst my archives - it clearly shows which building is the jewellers by the wording on the sunblind and above the windows upon the wall.
In conversation with Bob the other day he said that the building with the Archs i.e the Coach Works,was in fact Number 41 and therefore the building we thought was your ancestors was no 40 - I think this picture confirms it dont you.
But on thursday he is taking me in No 38,39 and 40, so will be able to pictures of all three wont I
Sorry about this slight mix up, but glad we have got it sorted out before Thursday
Chris in 1066
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UncleLarry
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Interesting, that it was a jewelers after James Foord closed down. I hate to ask more favors on top of everything else you are doing, but can you make out, or find out, the name on the blind "...atterbury". I will try also to do some more digging. One other point I want to confirm, is it correct that houses are numbered consecutively? Here in Canada, one side of the street is even, the other is odd. Thus, next door to #40 is #38, and next to #41 is #39. Regardless, I think you have it nailed down, and we will wait for the pictures on Thursday. And thanks for this one, I am going to add it to my webpage!
Thanks,Larry
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UncleLarry
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One other comment that might help out......I have a picture that I found somewhere, showing a similar view of White Rock but "facing" the other direction. The arched building has a sign that says "White and Norton" in "bronze" letters on the arch, and on the side of the building it says "White and Norton, Drapers". The next building to its left, which we originally thought was #39, has a straght horizontal sign that I can't read. To the left of that, the same sunblind, but I can't read the writing. However, at the third floor level (interestingly this building is only four stories, or three and an attic, compared to four or five plus for most others) the sign reads "Joseph Atterbury"..I think. And, to the right of White and Norton is Judge's Photo Store, and very clearly on the front it says 42 White Rock. Between the two of us Chris, we would make good detectives. I am attaching a copy of it and hope it helps.........Larry
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 jf2a.jpg (120.07 KB, 950x703 - viewed 88 times.)
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UncleLarry
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Think I have some more of this figured out Chris.......according to a note I got from the Hastings Library about five years ago 1888 was the last year for the Foord store. And according to the Kelly's Directories (spurned on by your original comment) effective 1890 the store was run by Sydney William Allen, and then in both 1905 and 1911 by John Atterbury. And, since we can read that in the sign above the store, that definitely is #39. Do you agree?
Larry
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Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Larry
Sorry I wasnt on last night, Fireworks, Bonfire, Children and all that.
You were asking about the numbering - usually, yes, it even numbers on one side and odd numbers on the other - BUT; being as this is the seafron there is nothing but water on the other side. Get my drift?
Yes, got to agree with all your working out - we now have confirmation that this is definitely No 39 with the shop blinds bearing the watchmaker, jewellers name - I wonder if the Foords had a similar sun blind.
I think on the latest picture that you attached it shows the prince of wales crest (3 feathers) above the window - did you spot them?
Chris
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Chris in 1066Land
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Larry
Prior to 1828 the piece of land that was in front and to the left of your ancestors shop was a rope walk - but by 1828 it had over 1000 squatters living on it with all sorts of piggeries, slaughter houses, glue works, etc. - but no one was paying any rent to live there. In 1828 the crown seized the land and gave everyone 7 years to get off it - and by Christmas 1835 people moved with their houses literally on their backs to other parts of Hastings and St Leonards. Some took up residence and built their houses in gaps just across the road - now you can see why some houses are very small and dont really fit in with the scheme of things.
To read the full story, see my web site and Robetson Street
Chris in Hastings
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UncleLarry
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Hi Chris:
Not sure I get the significance of the Prince of Wales crest??? Anyhow, OK on the street lettering, and we concur that we have it figured out correctly. That is cool. I too wonder if the James had a sunblind; given the popularity of them it seems like it might have been nearly a necessity. But what is really cool is the history you have on Robertson St etc, my compliments on your research. I find this stuff fascinating, and want to try to work some of it into my website on the two watchmakers. Without people caring about the past it will just evaporate into oblivian, and be gone forever. You have my compliments!
Larry
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Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Larry
Not sure I get the significance of the Prince of Wales crest???
If you supplied goods to Royalty on a regular basis and you met certain criteria, you were allowed to say "By appointment to Her Royal Highness Queen Victoria" or "Prince of Wales " in your advertizing and display the Royal crest on the outside of the building and on your stationary etc. Rock & Co,s carraige works show Queen Victorias Coat of Arms on the outside of No 41 and we know from the advert placed in the Street Directory that Foord was serving the Prince of Wales whose insignia is 3 feathers.
I really enjoyed doing that research on Robertson Street and my paper was instrumental in getting me my Local History Certicate from Sussex University - it is still ongoing and I am adding to my knowledge more and more.
Incidentally I spotted on the web when I was browsing the other night a web site called "Uncle Larrys Clockmakers page" or some very similar name - does it have any connection by chance?
Chris in Hastings
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UncleLarry
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I had run into that comment "by appointment........" before and now I know what it means. There is another point here that might expand our knowledge base. Many times, and I mean many times, I have run into this termonology or something very similar to it, a bit with clocks but primarily with watches. Since I had seen it so many times I thought it was somewhat of a misuse of the phrase. Perhaps not so. Or there was a lot of royalty back in those days 
Similar to yourself, but nowheres of the depth, I have done a lot of local research on the area where on my father's side my early immigrants took up farming near Niagara, and on my mother's side where the very early immigrants to Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island also took up farming. Both sides have produced some interesting tidbits of history, and over the years I have been able to offer some insight into the "times" to other researchers. So I know the joy you get from doing this.
And yes, that guy Uncle Larry is me. We are semi retired but still run an internet business selling watchmaker's tools. And if you are familar with the Antiques Road Show, that is the Canadian version, you can see me there on ocassion as an appraiser. My priorities these days have changed though, we do little actual watchwork anymore, prefer to travel a fair bit, enjoy my grandchidren, pursue ham radio, and yesterday I bought myself a new motorcyle. LIfe does have its rewards for us old guys who worked hard all their lives!
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Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Larry
Well, I went down to Stratford place this afternoon, but despite me sending Bob the foreman an e-mail last night, he had forgoten that I was going down and was very embarrassed that he had a meeting to go to.
Although I could not go anywhere else in the building, he did say I could wander around the ground floor of No 40 but was unable to get into No 39 - but Bob said that if I go down nest wednesday, he will take me around.
I managed to take this picture of No 39 from the back - (the little building)
Sorry mate, but it is a bit out of my hands at the moment
Chris
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UncleLarry
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That's really not a bad thing Chris, in fact the rear of the building actually gives a rather effective image of what it would have looked like back then. I do realize of course changes have taken place, but it does offer a window (wow, what a pun) into where they lived (over the store) and I'm gald to add it to my archives. Whatever you get is a bonus, I'm sure that these guys have a lot of things to do during any given workday, and their priority is hardly genealogy guys chasing down 150 year old history. And of course I do very much appreciate it!
Larry
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Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Larry
Just been doing some thinking (yes, I did have a lie down afterwards) whilst looking at the pictures of the rear of the houses - If you was a jeweller/watchmaker in the 1800's when there was no electricity and you had to rely on candles or paraffin lamps - you would want as much natural light as possible to enable you to do your work, hence the very big windows at the top of the building.
This follows on from my own ancestral research where my ancestors were silk weavers and again had large windows to the upstairs of their houses in Macclesfield.
Looking at this picture you can really see how a small building was wedged inbetween larger ones. The very big one on the right is Palace Chambers used to be called Seaside Hotel and obviously the buildings on the left are Rock & co's Carriage Works
As a matter of interest, have you followed James backwards and got his parents, and found out how he aquired his watchmakers skills?
Chris in Hastings
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