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Topic: Hastings....Stratford Place vs White Rock (Read 1946 times)
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UncleLarry
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Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Good morning Chris...boy do you have an active mind! Your point is absolutely valid, and I would never have thought about it. Being a watchmaker myself I do certainly know the value of good lighting. This would "enchance" the fact that even after James departed the store it remained a jewelery (and watch, and precious metal) operation for another thirty years, that I know of.
Although the website will be done soon (I might actually put it up sooner than later because the details never end), I have James' son who worked the store with his father, and after, plus I have his father, also named James. According the James' marriage certificate his father was a tailor. I do not know where James got his skills, I am quite sure he would have had to apprentice somewhere. However, I can't find James or his father in the 1841 census, so we are still digging.
And we also have Alfred George Foord another watchmaker who as of 1881 was a "jobber" and then had a store at 14 Queens Road from 1884 to 1917. Again, to date I can't nail down Alfred's parentage, and therefore can't tie the families together yet. But, it is such a bizarre surname coincidence that there must be some connection. The overall objective, besides an obvious horological interest (my father was also a watchmaker!), is to try to tie my known ancestors from Maidstone Kent to the Sussex Foord branch, but again I have issues here since I can't get back much earlier than 1850 or so on this side.
But no denying, we are having fun despite all the frustration!
Larry
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Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Larry
Thanks for that information, I will try and do a bit of searching from this end.
I had been looking through the hastings baptisms (census all say he was born in Hastings) and I found a James baptized 4th Feb 1829, son of James & Jane - Fisherman. That all fits but for the occupation of Fisherman when it should be Tailor.  Its a bit of a jump grom Fisherman to Tailor.
The only other James that could fit was baptized on the 3rd May 1832 the son of James & Mary - Butcher.
There are no Foord / Foorde entries for a James. 
By e-mail today I received the following
I have just been looking in Rootschat and followed the chat about the area around Palace Chambers. I found it very interesting, especially as his name is Foord.
As you know my Chapman family were resident on The America Ground before migrating to North Street, complete with the building, but did you know this Charles Chapman was married to Ruth Foord? Her sisters Barbara and Phoebe were also married to Chapmans and they had a brother James. Coincidence? The family came originally from Ashburnham.
I wonder if this could be the same Foord family.
Food for thought perhaps as we can not find him in Hastings.
Incidentally Chapman was the local milkman who also moved his house on his back and rebuilt it in North Street, St Leonards Picture below shows Charles Chapman and his son Charles - both early milkmen in St Leonards. He married Ruth Foord of Ashburnham in 1834, around the time the dairy was established in North Street. Edmund Chapman's brother James was a Sailor! He died at sea at Rhodes and is buried there. He was married to Barbara Foord, sister of Ruth Foord who married Charles. Another sister, Phoebe Foord, married their cousin Edward.
Do you have any other info on James the father or any other members of his family - who were the witnesses on the marriage certificate, what date did they get married and where, and did it state where James was living at the time of marriage as he married a girl that was born in Lincolnshire ?
All questions and very few answers at the moment I am afraid
Chris in Hastings
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Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Larry
Been looking at the early marriages, this one fits all of our known information
Location: Hastings All Saints, East Sussex, Date: 31 Dec 1827:
Groom: James FOORD
Bride: Jane COLBRAN
The only other James in Hastings getting married is back in 1789
Hastings St. Clement, East Sussex, Date: 7 Sep 1789:
James FOORD & Ann RUSSELL, St.Mary in the Castle
Any thoughts on the above
Chris in 1066
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turenne
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Larry,
As a matter of interest, are you by any chance related to Bert Foord the BBC presenter and weatherman?
Richard Lichten
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UncleLarry
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First, Chris........stop the presses! You did it! You have the right one, I am 99.9% sure. It is long and complicated but I had all along suspected that James Foord who married Jane Colbran was the right one; and that he died prior to the 1841 census (or took off)! Again it is complex.....but......I have been away all day, just checked my mail, must go back out again, and am away tomorrow. It is unlikely I will get to this until Monday. But if only you knew how excited I am (you probably do, you've been here before), and how grateful I am! Just as soon as I can get to it I will, and will confirm here in the forum. My gosh, I wish I could find another way of saying "thanks"!
And Richard, thanks for writing. I don't know of any connection, if there is it would be very very distant. Is he handsome and good looking like me? Just kidding, thanks for your interest.
Larry
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Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Larry
Looking on the 1841 Census we do have
Jane Ford aged 30 born in Sussex and
James Ford aged 13 born in Sussex
both living in Bourne Street in the Old town of Hastings
No one else is listed as living at the address.
Chris in 1066
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« Last Edit: Monday 12 November 07 16:18 GMT (UK) by Chris in 1066Land »
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UncleLarry
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Very confused here Chris....this is just a posting to insure that the forum is working properly....I made a posting early yesterday morning that it doesn't show, plus I received an email saying that you had made a posting also, and it doesn't show.
Before I go any further I want to confirm that everything is working OK.
Larry
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UncleLarry
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Hope this system is OK now Chris, just reply when you get caught up.
Yes, I too had the James Ford earmarked and felt quite confident that since James always listed his birthplace as Hastings, then he should (likely, but not guaranteed) appear in the 1841 census there. And this was the only entry that matched up so very very close. However, assumption is not always enough. But, you have put it altogether. Also, there is another person living there, her name is Elizabeth Colbran.
I just revised text for the webpage, and here is the snippet which pretty much covers it:
According to James and Clara's marriage certificate, his father's name was James and his occupation was sailor (the fancy scroll writing of the day makes
this word difficult to interpret, in fact we originally thought it was tailor). And according to the Hastings Baptisms James was baptized 4th Feb 1829, son of
James and Jane Ford, occupation fisherman. James Foord does not appear in the 1841 census, however a search based on his birthday produces a James Ford (a common
spelling error, and at the correct age of 13), living with Jane Ford age 30, and Elizabeth Colbran age 60, on Bourne St in old Hastings, all reported they
were born in Sussex (the 1841 census listed counties only, and did not state relationships). Elizabeth Colbran might very well be the widow of Geroge Colbran, who was listed
in the 1840 Pigot's Directory as "gaol" (jail) keeper and living on Bourne St. According to the early parish records, we find on 31st Dec 1827 James Foord
marrying Jane Colbran! It would appear that Jane and her son were living with her mother-in-law in the 1841 census. While it is somewhat of a safe bet that
Elizabeth was a widow, we cannot verify James' state. While he might have died prior to the 1841 census, given his occupation as fisherman and/or sailor, it is
also possible that he was "at sea". We cannot verify James' age, however his wife Jane was, according to the census, born abt 1811, and we assume
likewise for James..........'
A wee bit of irony here, James and Jane were married on my birthday. I do have some other questions and comments, but since I have been away so much I must get some work done, but wanted to get this off to you and to say thanks again. Will make another posting either later today or tomorrow with a bit more information and/or speculation.
Larry
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Chris in 1066Land
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Larry
I sent you several messages yesterday that have all been lost - and for the life of me I cannot remember everything that I wrote.
Some things that I can remember are that in the 1841 census, George Colbran was listed as being in the Goal House with two deputies/constables on that night; therefore his good lady (we assume) was in Bourne Street with Jane and James.
If James was a sailor in 1841, it was a tradition that they all went to sea on the night of the census and therefore never got recorded as the census particularly required people who were resident in the property on a particular night.
According to "Historic Hastings" by Manwaring Baines - George Colbran the Hastings Goaler was pensioned off at the age of 71 after 20 years service on the 4th February 1842. He died at 9 Hill Street on November 27th 1862 at the age of 92. In 1842 on his retirement he was listed as a widower.
Found these burials in Hastings:
COLBRAN George 93 3 Dec 1862 Hastings, St Clements
COLBRAN George 2 8 Oct 1838 This Parish Clem
COLBRAN George 35 16 Dec 1833 Hastings, St Clements
COLBRAN Jane 51 2 Oct 1851 All Saints
COLBRAN George 2 8 Oct 1838 All Saints
COLBRAN Elizabeth 77 18 Mar 1852 All Saints
Among that list do we have George the father, George the Son and George the (Holy Ghost) Grandfather; but we do not have an Elizabeth being buried after the 1841 census and before Georges retirement in 1842 that would have make him a widower.
Cant remember any more of what I wrote
Chris
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Chris in 1066Land
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Larry
I also now remember telling you that I had spotted this in the 51 census:
21 St Andrews Terrace, Hastings
Foord James, Head,23, Married, Jeweller, born Hastngs
Foord Sarah, Wife, Married, 21, born in Wainfleet, Lincolnshire
Which means between 41 and 51 he must have served an apprenticeship somewhere, possibly in Hastings for him to become a jeweller.
Chris in Hastings
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UncleLarry
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I think I have lost it totally Chris.........first on George, I distinctly recall searching for him, trying to confirm my suspicion that he was dead. Totally missed it. So therefore, for the time being, we probably should assume that James was at sea based on your comments. It would be logical, whether he had died or not, that his wife and son might be living with the Colbrans.
I do have the 1851 census entry, Clara being misspelled as Sarah, a pretty easy mistake. There is no doubt that the nature of the trade required an aprenticeship, and given the ten year span between census makes it tough to find out where.
With respect to the Sussex marriages (prior to 1837 BMD registers), is this searchable? And if so, by name? Or by location?
Thanks again!
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Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Larry
Yes it is fully searchable - what would you like me to look for?
Chris
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UncleLarry
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I would like, if possible and that is assuming that there is a true search (not you searching through pages and pages) all Hastings (which I assume you have done and produced two results), and all Foord/Ford marriages in Sussex prior to 1810. This is to build my database of probables, ultimately (I think) I am going to need 1700s info to tie this Foord family to my Kent Foords....or at least I pray I can..... 
Zero rush here Chris, I have a lot ahead of me yet. Also, probably by tomorrow or next day I will have the website close enough to put it up.
So I will start a thread on it to perhaps rein in some more helpers, and I also am going to start another thread on "economics" of the time so I can get a better understand of what was going on in the UK in 1850.
Feel free to contribute anything and everything you want, you are great asset!
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UncleLarry
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Forgot to mention, about two weeks ago I ordered the death certificates for all James Foords (four of them) that died prior to 1840. So that should either confirm that he did die, or confirm that he "at sea".
Larry
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Chris in 1066Land
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Larry
I made this posting a while ago, but it seems to have dissappeared just like some messages did yesterday together with a private message I sent you. Perhaps we should communcate via e-mail till the system settles down again.
There are well over 500 marriages in the marriage index for the surname foord and variants, so perhaps it would be better for you to buy the CD and then you will have all marriages to hand when you have time to browse them
The Sussex Marriage Index, available from the Sussex Family History Group costing £23.10 GBP - Coverage is all known Sussex marriages between 1538-1837.
www.sfhg.org.uk/pubs-1.html
I am also sending you another private message
Chris
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Charles_Chapmans_x_2_1._1870.JPG